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#190024 - 12/05/09 11:55 PM Emergency Kits
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Just read a short sidebar article in Consumer Reports on emergency preparations. They polled 1000+ adults, 82% of whom stated they were prepared for a situation where they would be holed up for two weeks at home. Only 1% had all sixteen items considered by CU to be essential - the average individual had less than 10 of the items. Best prepared were non renters, 30 and older. I suspect most of those on this forum would do pretty well. Here is the "sweet sixteen items," listed from most commonly possessed (90%) to least (14%)

flashlight
nonprescription pain reliever
manual can opener
sanitation and personal hygiene items
FAK
two week supply of prescription drugs
extra batteries
thermometer (presumably medical)
hand sanitizer w/60% alcohol
portable radio (hand cranked or batt operated)
two weeks supply of non-perishable food
nonprescription diarrhea meds
two week supply of potable water for each family member
chemical cold packs
electrolyte drinks
surgical masks - N-95 or higher

Your thoughts, please......




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#190042 - 12/06/09 03:47 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: hikermor]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
No knife, no tools, no means of warmth or water purification. No mention of fuel. Their list looses. I'd fail their list, because I don't feel the need for two weeks of water. I've got 5+ days, and means to purify a month's worth.

And I love the 82% number. Uhm, no.
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#190043 - 12/06/09 04:03 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: hikermor]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
except for the water which i could get from a spring,a big one..or a local lake i could walk to in a few minutes i have all those things,plus,and i did not plan it that way i just do..however..this all smacks of 1950's cold war hid in the basement thinking.unless you live in a earthquake or storm zone no one needs a two week supply of anything.fear mongering is a good way to sell stuff and i'm old enough to have see several waves of this sort of thing pass thru several times since the 1950's.

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#190045 - 12/06/09 04:18 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: CANOEDOGS]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Chemical Cold Packs? I have 1-2, but I can't see them being on the "esentials" list, ditto N-95s
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#190047 - 12/06/09 05:30 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: KG2V]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
on second look this seems like a very odd list of stuff..the medical items like thermometers,electrolyte drinks,hand sanitizer and meds,OC and scrips looks like a prep for a flu outbreak so bad that you can't leave home,but items like a battery radio move the list over to a earthquake,storm,national disaster sort of prep items..i would say it was put together by someone handed a assignment for a magazine article and they just threw this out.

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#190048 - 12/06/09 05:53 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: hikermor]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
flashlight - A good and reliable flashlight is pretty much preparedness 101. I would avoid the cheap incandescent models if your not absolutely sure that they are sturdy and reliable. Any flashlight that is in danger of failure if dropped and/or needs to be slapped around to work is suspect. LED flashlights are often more durable, reliable and make batteries last longer.

nonprescription pain reliever - IMHO every kit should have one or two single-doses of aspirin. It is generally useful and is so profoundly beneficial in the case of a heart attack that it justified its existence in any kit. For general use I like Ibuprofen.

manual can opener - A P-38 is good but an easier way to cover this is to have a SAK or multi-tool, either of which have a lot of other uses, in your kit. It is a pain but most any knife can be used to open a can.

sanitation and personal hygiene items - Humans can go a long time if need be between a full-on scrub. People can usually get by for days just cleaning their hands so they don't get sick. But a wipe down of the face, neck, pits and rump makes just about everyone feel more civilized and makes being around them more pleasant. This can be done with baby wipes but over longer periods of time a washcloth, sliver of soap, and splash of water can save weight and trouble. Depends on how dear clean water is.

FAK - A simple kit with a collection of general use items is better than more narrowly focused supplies. Triangular bandages, sports tape, a couple of elastic bandages, and large amounts of gauze pads make a good base. A few bandaids are handy but by definition if it can be treated with a bandaid it isn't very serious. A couple of combination pressure/pad/tourniquet type field dressings are grand for immediate use with serious injuries.

two week supply of prescription drugs - Naturally. Consider a much larger supply of vital medications. Repackage as necessary but keep a copy of the label handy for legal reasons and be sure to keep it all well, and clearly labeled, and dry.

extra batteries - generally necessary but there is some chance that if the devices you select are efficient enough, highly efficient LED flashlights versus incandescent, and the batteries good enough, lithium cells instead of alkaline cells, you could limit the numbers of replacements needed. Possibly eliminating them entirely.

thermometer (presumably medical) - I guess if hypothermia is a concern and your otherwise equipped to deal with it, beyond your normal warming procedure, or where the possible presence of a fever causing disease might determine treatment, it might be useful. That said I have never seen much use for one. If weight is critical, I'm carrying all may supplies, it would be in my kit. If weigh isn't critical I might have one.

hand sanitizer w/60% alcohol - a small bottle or two. I prefer soap and water.

portable radio (hand cranked or batt operated) - very tiny and efficient ear-bud models work fine for one or two people. With lithium batteries they can run for a very long time. Larger parties will want a radio with a speaker and will pay a greater premium in bulk and/or batteries. Hand-crank radios save on batteries but they are usually heavier and often bulky. Hand crank mechanisms are prone to taking a lot of abuse so if you go that way go for quality and give them a good workout before placing your trust in them.

two weeks supply of non-perishable food - simple foods that can be eaten without heating and preparation if necessary are best. But including a few familiar and favorite items. Particularly if there are children.

nonprescription diarrhea meds - Digestion is likely to get uneven as stress, strange food, less than perfect water, lack of sleep work against you. I really think that you need three things; a calcium carbonate bases antacid like Tums; a general purpose stomach/diarrhea medicine like Pepto-Bismol, tablets or liquid; a dedicated anti-diarrheal, Imodium or generic equivalent. Carrying all three gives you options to handle sour stomachs, mild indigestion and diarrhea, and your full-bore case of trots.

two week supply of potable water for each family member - Carrying even a minimum weeks supply is a weighty proposition. Fourteen pounds per person, plus whatever the container/s weigh, at a very minimalist quart a day. Half a gallon is more realistic but that means over 28 pounds per person. Which, if you carrying all this on your back, is a pretty substantial load all by itself. Either your going to have to depend on some mechanical assistance in carrying supplies, motor vehicle or a cart of some type, or you are going to have to carry less and plan on resupplying, and possibly treating, water.


chemical cold packs - I have never had much use for them. They are bulky and heavy, and they degrade in time and can cause corrosion if they leak while in storage. If you have room to spare and weight isn't an issue they might be useful.


electrolyte drinks - Redundant if you carry water and rehydration mix with you. If your in a hot climate the premixed drinks might be convenient but most people get along pretty well with water and water has many more uses.

surgical masks - N-95 or higher - A bit of a contradiction. Surgical masks typically don't carry any designation. There is precious little evidence that masks, any non-respirator, really accomplish much in real-life use. Even less that the 'or higher', N-99 or N-100, are any more effective in use. If you do buy masks consider buying ones with an exhalation valve. They don't necessarily work better but they are far more comfortable. A huge difference in warm weather. If its important enough that you really need such a mask your probably better off getting a respirator with replaceable filters.

Your thoughts, please......

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#190052 - 12/06/09 07:00 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Art_in_FL]
UpstateTom Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 165
Loc: Rens. County, NY
The list looks to me like it was thrown together by someone that didn't do any research, didn't put any effort into the article, and has never lived in an area where there are serious storms.

I saw an editorial cartoon years ago that showed a person identified as a journalist spinning a giant roulette wheel, with many different subjects listed on the wheel: farming, economy, environment, biology, etc. The sign above the wheel said "Today I'm going to pretend to be an expert in:". I'm surprised the newspaper printed it, and sorry that I didn't keep a copy.

To the specifics of the list, no source of heat, no tools or repair supplies of any kind except FAK, no mention of cooking methods that work if the utilities are out, no mention of extra water to clean dishes and cookware, no mention of any type of kit to take with you if you had to evacuate, no mention of any documentation of any kind. I don't understand the purpose of the cold packs and masks in a kit that's designed solely for being bottled up at home. It's not like you're going to sprain your arm fixing something with the tools you don't have.

Given the quality of the list, and the 82% number, I personally don't believe that a survey was taken.

Also just my opinion - anybody that claims to be able to give you expert advice about everything, is usually qualified to give you advice on nothing.



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#190054 - 12/06/09 11:35 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Art_in_FL]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
sanitation and personal hygiene items - Humans can go a long time if need be between a full-on scrub.
I wondered if they meant tampons etc. Over a 2-week crisis there's a 50:50 chance you'll need them, if you are an appropriately-aged woman. It came fairly high on the list, so I guess most people don't have a "just in time" stocking policy for these.

Quote:
two week supply of potable water for each family member - Carrying even a minimum weeks supply is a weighty proposition.
Um, the survey is about sheltering in place - it mentions being "holed up for two weeks at home". So you don't have to carry it.

Being self-contained for 2 weeks is one of my goals. I wouldn't want to rely on getting water from a spring or whatever that was outside of the house.
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#190057 - 12/06/09 12:41 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Art_in_FL]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL

Humans can go a long time if need be between a full-on scrub.

I've read many times that in the Middle Ages Europeans took baths twice a year or so.

Trying to stay reasonably clean has merit in terms of infection control, etc. In hurricane or earthquake aftermath scenarios you're likely to be constantly getting small scratches & such while clearing debris and other recovery efforts. Allocating some resources for sponge-baths is prudent where possible.

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#190058 - 12/06/09 01:21 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: CANOEDOGS]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
except for the water which i could get from a spring,a big one..or a local lake i could walk to in a few minutes

Unfortunately those kinds of water supply aren't necessarily reliable. During Hurricane Ike the Seabrook sewage treatment plant was submerged and spilled who-knows-how-much of who-knows-what. No surface water supply anywhere nearby was trustworthy for a while. Not to mention the chemical plants in Pasadena and Baytown.

Quote:

..however..this all smacks of 1950's cold war hid in the basement thinking.unless you live in a earthquake or storm zone

A large percentage of the US population lives in one or the other: all of California and all of Florida alone is a lot of people...

Quote:
no one needs a two week supply of anything.fear mongering is a good way to sell stuff and i'm old enough to have see several waves of this sort of thing pass thru several times since the 1950's.

No, *everyone* needs a two week supply of water. *Always*. It's just a matter of where it comes from normally, where it comes from in abnormal situations, etc.

It's mainly a matter of contingency planning and personal choice. Some people don't refill their car's gas tank until the 20-miles-to-go light come on - I doubt any of these people have any drinking water, extra blankets, etc. Some people top off their gas tank at about the halfway mark - these people probably buy their next roll of toilet paper *before* running out, etc.

PLBs, fancy survival tents & bivvy sacks etc may not get to the cost/benefit threshold for most people, but the things on that list seem cheap & reasonable to me. (not sufficient! just no extravagance). Water especially meets the cost/benefit threshold pretty easily...

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#190059 - 12/06/09 01:52 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: hikermor]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I hate to be cynical, but 82% of the people polled said they were prepared for an emergency situation where they would have to survive on what they had for two weeks and that percentage sounds inflated to me. Unless they were poling ETS forum members or similar, I'd think 33% was a high number. Not even 10% of my family and friends are prepared for a two week emergency and I talk about the necessity of being prepared all the time.

On the other hand, I actually hope that 82% is correct...
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"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#190060 - 12/06/09 02:03 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: hikermor
Just read a short sidebar article in Consumer Reports on emergency preparations. They polled 1000+ adults, 82% of whom stated they were prepared for a situation where they would be holed up for two weeks at home. Only 1% had all sixteen items considered by CU to be essential - the average individual had less than 10 of the items. Best prepared were non renters, 30 and older. I suspect most of those on this forum would do pretty well. Here is the "sweet sixteen items," listed from most commonly possessed (90%) to least (14%)

flashlight
nonprescription pain reliever
manual can opener
sanitation and personal hygiene items
FAK
two week supply of prescription drugs
extra batteries
thermometer (presumably medical)
hand sanitizer w/60% alcohol
portable radio (hand cranked or batt operated)
two weeks supply of non-perishable food
nonprescription diarrhea meds
two week supply of potable water for each family member
chemical cold packs
electrolyte drinks
surgical masks - N-95 or higher

Your thoughts, please......
I read that to mean 82% thought they were prepared, but in fact most (99%) did not have everything on the list. I don't have everything; why would I want chemical cold packs when I have ice.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#190061 - 12/06/09 02:07 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Nicodemus]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I agree that the list appears to be lacking in some basic essentials. A manual can opener is good, but no knife? Everyone has knives, go look in the kitchen.

But, having something is better than having nothing.

I too think the 82% number is hyper-inflated. It may be a matter of perception - I "think" I am ready for a two week situation as opposed to I "know" I am ready for a two week situation.

I also think that too many people are believing that Uncle will be there to help them in a time of crisis, making things all better. Good luck with that line of thought.


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#190062 - 12/06/09 02:08 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Russ]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
I doubt that 82% are prepared for tomorrow.

Storing adequate water is probably where most families would fall short. They use more than they think and storing enough for two weeks requires real commitment and substantial storage.

Things like knives it is reasonable to presume everyone has in their kitchen.





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#190063 - 12/06/09 02:32 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I agree, but 82% think they're ready -- it's a matter of perception.

I agree on knives/tools, but if you don't have them you probably won't know how to use them. Since a set of knives (meaning more than one) is in 99% of the kitchens in the U.S., putting knives on the list couldn't have hurt but doesn't really matter.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#190064 - 12/06/09 02:41 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Russ]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
How come duct tape is not on the list? I am not the brightest knife in the drawer (mixed metaphor?), but I would think that would have made the list. I know not everyone views it as a necessity. But, it is just so darned handy and versatile.

Also, remember that 75% of statistics are made up on the spot and the other 25% are made up later. I seem to recall Mark Twain said something about statistics.


Edited by MoBOB (12/06/09 02:49 PM)
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#190065 - 12/06/09 03:11 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: MoBOB]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
2 weeks worth of water is 40- 80 gallons for us. Seems like quite alot. What does the Red Cross recommend?

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#190070 - 12/06/09 04:06 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: TeacherRO]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
Twain's quote was' "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".


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#190071 - 12/06/09 04:21 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: TeacherRO]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
i would like to see a list like this..done better of course,that was aimed at different parts of the country with the needs of large city's factored in.the water issue prompted this thought.where i live i have lots of water in lots of places i can walk too.some cleaner than others but nothing that one of my water filters can't clean so there is no need to store lots of water--but--if it was winter and sub zero i would want someway to heat at least one room of my home and the space that water would take up in Arizona i would have filled with wood,coal,LP gas.or in winter and stuck in the house i may want more high calorie foods that i would than down south where dealing with the cold would not be an issue.anyway you get the idea--people don't get prepared not just because their lazy but they get bad and sometimes opposite information.there are lots of food blogs that cater to a city or part of the country,how about a group of blogs that do the same and include the SW corner of Ohio or the panhandle of Texas until just about everyone knows not just a good place to eat in town but what they would need in a emergency where they live.

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#190081 - 12/06/09 07:30 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: TeacherRO]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
2 weeks worth of water is 40- 80 gallons for us. Seems like quite alot. What does the Red Cross recommend?


I believe Red Cross recommends the minimum, 1 gallon per person per day. Two weeks is 14 gallons, times the number in your household - for us currently 3. 42 gallons - the size of a 55 gallon barrel or 2 x 30 gallons would do; or for those optimistic about reaching it, your home water heater might cover that. 42 gallons is not very much once you have bought the barrels and run the garden hose, and have a pump etc - and you rotate your stored water with daylight savings time. Personally though I would plan for more water, 3 gallons per day per person.

I think the gist of the CU article is that only 1% of those who say they are prepared have at least the things on their list, and if you list more things then the 1% will go down, but what's the point. I daresay any list is slanted to the abilities of those who make them - I can survive for weeks from the contents of my home without a knife (gasp) or duct tape, but I won't last more than 3 days without warm clothing and shelter to protect us from cold or wet.

Another way of putting Consumer Reports' analysis: if a disaster forced you outdoors in the next five minutes, what would you have to sustain life? Their poll indicates alot of people *think* they have some supplies, but only 1% actually do. So there will be alot of neighbors digging in their rubble looking for stuff (and maybe people), and/or in need of the basics, food and shelter.

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#190088 - 12/06/09 09:50 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: CANOEDOGS]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
very odd list of stuff


I had the same impression, I don't think there was very much research or thought put into it.

Consumer Reports is good on things like microwaves and TVs, decent on cars. I've seen their computer reviews and either cringed in horror or laughed at the ignorance. Guess they don't know about emergency preps, either.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#190097 - 12/06/09 11:27 PM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: ironraven]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
I suspected that the survey was largely a fiction and thought the list was a bit unbalanced. But none of that matters. It can be used as a starting point for discussion, exploration of the issues and concepts.

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#190101 - 12/07/09 12:15 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Art_in_FL]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I read it just like Russ did and understood the list is what people who thought they were ready actually had instead of the full list.

Obviously people have stuff that is easy to have and which is unlikely to be used except under certain conditions. Apparently some things just get taken for granted too.

I am quite frankly surprised that as many people had a FAK as the survey says and I wonder what a FAK had to be to qualify. I don't think a bottle of iodine, 2 aspirins and 3 bandaids is a FAK but my aunt does.


Edited by scafool (12/07/09 12:19 AM)
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#190102 - 12/07/09 12:37 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: scafool]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
An FAK can run the gamut from a few band-aids to a full up EMT kit. Only the EMT knows that he isn't ready for everything.

_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#190108 - 12/07/09 01:43 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Russ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Yeah, it seems like an odd list, and no doubt it could have been better. But: in a survey you can only ask a handful of questions.

(BTW: I assume CR actually did the survey, or at least referred to a decent one; they're a pretty credible outfit, in my experience; they're definitely on my go-to list when I'm car shopping.)

So standing back from it: are some/all of these questions credible as "diagnostic points" -- the tip of the iceberg that gives an indication of what's below the surface? Does it suggest people are starting to think about this subject even a little?

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#190128 - 12/07/09 05:44 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: dougwalkabout]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
I think people are considering BoB's, BoL's, etc. The "marketing efforts" being used to push FEAR in regards to 2012 is driving a lot of the interest. That's MY OPINION.
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The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#190131 - 12/07/09 06:33 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: wildman800]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I seem to recall some pretty good sales (in stores and garages) after Y2K. A deadline is a motivator. Though how to keep people on track after the deadline has passed ... still working on that. And for those who buy in to 2012 in a serious way, they will mostly be stocking champagne and personal lube, don't you think?


Edited by dougwalkabout (12/07/09 06:36 AM)

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#190138 - 12/07/09 08:46 AM Re: Emergency Kits [Re: Russ]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
like the others seem to say, interesting list. I'd have tossed out the thermometer, masks and electrylyte drinks, but that's just me.

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