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#189047 - 11/24/09 02:00 AM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: Hookpunch]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 329
Loc: Connecticut, USA
The post about those girls is what made me start this thread.

Those girls went into water right? I am curious to know how I'd react in that situation. I like to think of myself as comfortable in the water and I like to think I'd have the presence of mind to either roll down a window, smash it, or go to and air space and wait for pressure to equalize such that I can open a door, but who knows. I have done a bit of scuba diving which might prepare me a bit, but I don't feel any amount of familiarity with the water can assure me that I wouldn't panic.

A couple notes: I wouldn't plan on opening a blade to smash the window. I imagine just using the knuckled top part of the skeletool to do the smashing. This probably wouldn't work as well with a folder.

I'm going to see if I can find a car to try it on. If I do I'll wear a heavy leather glove and use my left (weak) hand from the drivers seat. In a real emergency I might cut my hand, but a ruined hand is something I'm willing to risk in the name of not dying. After all I'm going to sacrifice my left arm if I ever get attacked by a dog!

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#189050 - 11/24/09 02:21 AM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: roberttheiii]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 329
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Also, I did once flip an "oddessy" (think go-cart on steroids) over in a ditch. I believe I was able to free myself, though a boot did get stuck which freaked me out a bit. I was also maybe 14, thus a bit smaller.


Edited by roberttheiii (11/24/09 02:26 AM)

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#189551 - 11/30/09 08:41 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: roberttheiii]
duckear Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 477
I will just 'punch" out the window with my Kel-Tec if my Gerber doesn't work.

wink



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#189602 - 12/01/09 04:43 AM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: duckear]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
Discovery ran a Mythbusters marathon over the holidays. Rewatching the underwater car episode, I noted some things:

Adam could open the door if he did it VERY soon after hitting the water. When he waited and attempted to open the door after it was partially under water, he ran out of air before pressure equalized to where he could open the door (and had to get the regulator Jaime was holding for him in the car).

In a later test, he waited and ventilated while the cabin filled, and was easily able to hold his breath long enough after the water rose past his head for the pressure to equalize and allow him to open the door.

An electric window operated under water for more than 45 minutes. But when they piled enough weight on the window to simulate the pressure of water outside an air-filled car, it jammed and wouldn't move.

Manual window crank failed completely under the same load.

Putting a door in a water tank, and reaching in with just his hand and forearm in the water, Adam was not able to strike the window hard enough to break it with a cell phone or with keys. Even after climbing in the tank, he was not able to kick it hard enough to break it even with a steel-toed shoe. This struck me as the most important thing in the whole show. Even partial submergence in water impeded his motion significantly.

A Life Hammer broke the window on the first strike, under the same "hand and forearm only in the water" condition, as did a center punch (identical function to a Res-Q-Me).


If you go in the water, you better have a specialized tool for breaking that window. If the water inside gets high enough while you unbelt yourself and possibly others in the car, you may not be able to break it with an improvised tool.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go practice finding the awl on my Leatherman with my eyes closed. Just in case I can't get my Res-Q-Me OR my Life Hammer.
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Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#189733 - 12/02/09 03:44 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: Compugeek]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Compugeek
Putting a door in a water tank, and reaching in with just his hand and forearm in the water, Adam was not able to strike the window hard enough to break it with a cell phone or with keys. Even after climbing in the tank, he was not able to kick it hard enough to break it even with a steel-toed shoe.
Without having seen the episode, I wouldn't expect either of those to be good tools for breaking glass, regardless of whether you are underwater. Did they do any above-water control tests?

Quote:
If you go in the water, you better have a specialized tool for breaking that window. If the water inside gets high enough while you unbelt yourself and possibly others in the car, you may not be able to break it with an improvised tool.
It sounds to me as though it would be better to break the window first, and unbelt yourself and others afterwards.

Originally Posted By: thseng
How is the tip of a center punch much different than the tip of a knife?
If I had a Ritter Grip with me, I'd try using it closed. There's a steel angle at end of the thumb-ridges which looks like it would be enough of a point, while still being strong and hard enough, and with much less risk of cutting something.
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Quality is addictive.

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#189738 - 12/02/09 04:56 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: Brangdon]
T_Co Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 184
Loc: Nebraska
Mythbusters episode rundown here as posted in another thread

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#189749 - 12/02/09 06:16 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: Compugeek]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
A Life Hammer broke the window on the first strike, under the same "hand and forearm only in the water" condition, as did a center punch (identical function to a Res-Q-Me).


My concern with using a hammer or knife to break a window in a vehicle filled with water is the water resistance impeding the blow when striking the window. The Res-Q-Me or center punch is not affected by water resistance (of the strike) and should make breaking the window easier than with a hammer or knife. The hand/arm only under water is not taking into account the water resistance against the whole body. Think of it this way if you stand above the water surface and punch water, your body is anchored on a firm surface, now go underwater and punch, your whole body will recoil slightly losing power.

Pete


Edited by paramedicpete (12/02/09 07:06 PM)
Edit Reason: changed wording

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#189751 - 12/02/09 06:40 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: paramedicpete]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Consider the needs of a person with diminshed or little physical strength or ability. It is folly to assume an emergency tool will always be wielded by a strong, able-bodied person.


Edited by dweste (12/02/09 06:40 PM)

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#189763 - 12/02/09 08:15 PM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: dweste]
T_Co Offline
Member

Registered: 10/01/09
Posts: 184
Loc: Nebraska
If power will be diminished then the choice seems obvious to go with a mechanical aid (for said person).

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#189778 - 12/03/09 01:21 AM Re: Am I nuts? No Res-Q-Me or Equivalent [Re: roberttheiii]
Jakam
Unregistered


I got the Victorinix Rescue Tool but have yet to practice on an abandoned car or anything to see if I can successfully shatter glass.
I got it as much for getting someone else out of their car as for me to get out of mine.


Edited by Jakam (12/04/09 06:57 PM)

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