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#185083 - 10/12/09 11:18 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Y_T_ Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 31
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS


nice photo for a coffee table book of canoe country but it was on this day and along miles of shore like this that the thought crossed my mind that a real stove and not fire lighters and a Bic would be what i would need in a survival situation.
that's gorgeous! and yes, I can see why you'd like to have a pocket stove as a backup, not relying entirely on starting a fire with materials in the surroundings.

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#185103 - 10/13/09 02:04 AM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: CANOEDOGS]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
Canoedogs, in your photo it looks like there's some chunks of dead birch trees. Slit the bark and peel it off the rotting wood and light it with your Bic. Burns like it's soaked in oil.

For me, a "survival stove" is a nice campfire. Granted, there are times where a stove is nice to have. In the snow, for instance.

For your life jacket, I suggest a girl-scout approved "buddy burner". Traditionally you take an empty tuna can and cut a strip of corrigated cardboard which you coil up tightly inside it. Melt some wax and fill the can. You could make it in something like a round mint tin with a lid for a pocket version.

It's shelf stable, as long as it doesn't get too hot or if you add the right amount stearin to the wax.
Waterproof.
Lights pretty easily.
Burns hot and long, even in the wind once it gets going.
Ruins your cookware with sticky soot, but who cares when you're in trouble?
Could also be used as a fire starter...
_________________________
- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#185110 - 10/13/09 03:14 AM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: thseng]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
Tom..all good ideas,the woods are full of birch and pine that start and burn like a torch but i don't want to have to depend on my natural surroundings for something to make heat fast.i could find myself in a stand of aspen which takes a good hot fire to get it to burn or so numb that fooling around with a knife is out of the question. the problem is i will never know what i will find.a few years ago i was driven off a huge lake by a storm and landed on a sandy sheltered beach with enough drift wood for a Scout Jamboree bonfire.the buddy burner is a good thought.no fuel to spill or small burner parts to bust.with a good heavy lamp wick and a mix of beeswax's and fatwood bits i could see it making a fast hot fire and it could be pushed out of shape or wet and still work.i had thought about using some of the cans of Army ration heater,the old cans of wood alcohol,but the fumes that come off and the possible problem prying off the lid made me set that idea aside.well i have all winter,i'm sure i'll come up with something.



this is the fire starter i worked on last winter and it went along on the canoe trips.it's a Green Heat fire jell that i fixed up to open with one hand.it more than likely would get a fire of some sort going before it burned out but like i said,this year i looked at all that wet moss coated ground and rotten wood and started thinking a real stove would be a better bet.


Edited by CANOEDOGS (10/13/09 03:32 AM)

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#185129 - 10/13/09 07:25 AM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: CANOEDOGS]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS




kerosene..which is nasty and greasy but burns hot and go's a long way..


That is MY STOVE! I love it because it has no moving part in the hot section... which equates to hardly nothing that can go wrong. You use pressure (pump/de-pressurize) to regulate the power. The only things that can give you trouble is the pump (typical a very easy fix with a gasket or something!) or the nozzle is clogged because of dirty fuel (easily cleaned with a pin that you pack along with the stove).

Most other stoves will regulate the power with some sort mechanism in the "hot" part of the stove. Heating and cooling fragile mechanical part is not my idea of robustness....

Originally Posted By: CANOEDOGS
carts of canned Gaz of some sort which are very easy to light,burn and store but like in this photo loose power in cold weather..i had to spoon warm water into the stove base to get enough heat to get water to a rolling boil..


When you're fed up with that alcohol burner, Trangia makes an excellent gaz burner that will replace the trangia alcohol stove. You can see it here:
http://trangia.se/english/2925.original_accessories.html, on the right side of the page (part nr. 742527). No moving parts in the head... smile


Oh - have a second look at that trangia gaz burner. Notice that little "loop" that the fuel line makes over the flame section of the head? That loop means you can feed the stove with LIQUID gaz, it will evaporate in that loop. In other words, when the stove is burning you flip the gaz canister upside-down. The fuel line will now be filled with liquid gaz (which is heavier than "gazzified" gaz).

Typically, the performance of stoves is limited by the evaporation in the gaz canister, which a) requires energy (i.e. heat - which is why the gaz canister cools off during use), and b) is highly affected by low temperatures. By flipping the gaz canister upside down you take a) and b) out of the equation - but you can ONLY do that on stoves that has that little "loop" through the flames. Blast can probably confirm that spitting drops of liquid gaz out through the nozzle will create a GIANT fireball...

Of course, gaz canister has inevitable limitations in the winter, but I find that I can push the boundaries quite a bit using a trangia burner and the "flip the canister" tricks. As always, use at your own risk...

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#185146 - 10/13/09 01:14 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: MostlyHarmless]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Canoedogs, your challenge to find a stove or heat source that fits into a vest pocket is hard to match.
You started me thinking about it so I was looking through my junk and doing some searches through the supplier's materials.

I keep running into the problem of what fuel can give you a useful amount of heat in that compact of a package especially when the package includes the burner.
I seem to keep coming back to some type of can candle or one of those miniature butane powered wonders.

At least with the candle it can be used as an accelerant for fire starting.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#185150 - 10/13/09 02:21 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: scafool]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Let me try to sneak up on this challenge.

Central California is experiencing ithe first severe winter storm of winter: heavy wind, heavy rain, and major temperature drops. If I were canoeing and went in with just what is in my pockets and PFD vest, far from other help, I think I can put myself conceptually in Canoedogs' place.

I would want to stoke my internal "fire" immediately by consuming some very high energy and easy to digest food source, like a cyclists gel packs of goo. I would want to shelter from the chilling effects of rain and wind in something like a heatsheet or other space age blanket / poncho. I would want to start some self-heating food packs "cooking." And then I would want to use no-fail starters [gel, tabs, whatever] to create a large heat source to dry and warm myself - a fire. Once I had a fire going I would want to slow down, eat, and think through my situation.

No role for a small cook stove in the scenario to this point.

Otherwise, if I have my drybags and packs, I am just camping out and have no need for a cook stove in my pfd/vest.

Have I missed something?


Edited by dweste (10/13/09 02:28 PM)

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#185153 - 10/13/09 02:35 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: scafool]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
How about this pocket stove?



Esbit emergency stove - scroll down to it. For $2.75 you really can't go wrong.

This is a great web store, by the way. I'm a satisfied customer.



Edited by Jeff_M (10/13/09 02:39 PM)

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#185154 - 10/13/09 02:42 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
I see that you already have an MSR Titan kettle, all you need is an Brunton Optimus Crux Stove or the lighter weight Primus Micron titanium Stove and a MSR Isopro 4 oz gas cartridge . Both the gas cartridge and stove should fit into the Titan Kettle.



MSR Titan Kettle with Primus Micron Titanium and 8 oz MSR gas cartridge


Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (10/13/09 02:45 PM)

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#189186 - 11/25/09 03:11 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: LED]
Tag Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 6
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: LED
Most people seem to really like their Trangias, myself included. Their cooksets are very well thought out and extremely wind resistant. However, I wanted to use my own kettle and pots so I started using the clickstand which was designed around the Trangia burner. Not as wind resistant as the trangia cookset but pretty close.


The clickstand looks pretty good, but I couldn't work out where you're supposed to put some of the other fuels they list (such as solid fuel tablets) if you want to run it that way.


Has anyone tried using a Greenheat gel fuel sachet in a Trangia burner?

Assuming the whole sachet is used up (so no need to clean out leftover gel afterwards), can anyone see a problem with doing so?

Thanks,
Tag

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#189202 - 11/25/09 05:47 PM Re: How to Choose a Backpacking/Survival Stove [Re: Tag]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
Has anyone tried using a Greenheat gel fuel sachet in a Trangia burner?

Assuming the whole sachet is used up (so no need to clean out leftover gel afterwards), can anyone see a problem with doing so?


Paul an Ex Sandhurst Trained British Army Officer was fired from the Apprentice UK TV show because he selected the wrong stove and couldn't get his sausages cooked properly to sell them to the French. wink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q6WFFoCtb4 Part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMlB-1KmRA Part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V98ufDgZup4 Part3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27ntaMmvMIk Part4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxLsE54luH4 Part5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4PcMEyXm2k Part6 - Watch Paul get fired.... laugh laugh


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