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#188493 - 11/17/09 06:28 PM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Y_T_]
Scottpre21 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 2
Every time I've worked a scene as an EMT that has a patient with a well-documented medical card, it makes my life and the life of any ALS responders easier.

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#188808 - 11/21/09 04:12 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: James_Van_Artsdalen]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen
Originally Posted By: Jeff_M

Sorry, but I won't be plugging any unknown usb drives into the ambulance's computer,

Even if Windows is banned from ER and ambulances to fix the security/virus problem, there's no way to expect anyone to know what to do with any material other than printed English text.


Admittedly, plugging an unknown storage device into a mission-critical system, regardless of operating system, is dangerous. Nevertheless, if a Windows system is configured properly, there's no reason why it is any riskier than plugging into any other OS-based system. But I digress...

Plain old .TXT files can be read on any OS. JPEG is natively supported on all OS's for image files. These days, Adobe PDF is ubiquitous enough to also be a universal standard for documentation. If you are concerned about Adobe Reader's security flaws, the free FoxIt PDF viewer is a simpler, and accordingly safer, alternative.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#188852 - 11/21/09 08:14 PM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Mark_M]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Mark_M
Originally Posted By: James_Van_Artsdalen
Originally Posted By: Jeff_M

Sorry, but I won't be plugging any unknown usb drives into the ambulance's computer,

Even if Windows is banned from ER and ambulances to fix the security/virus problem, there's no way to expect anyone to know what to do with any material other than printed English text.


Admittedly, plugging an unknown storage device into a mission-critical system, regardless of operating system, is dangerous. Nevertheless, if a Windows system is configured properly, there's no reason why it is any riskier than plugging into any other OS-based system. But I digress...

Plain old .TXT files can be read on any OS. JPEG is natively supported on all OS's for image files. These days, Adobe PDF is ubiquitous enough to also be a universal standard for documentation. If you are concerned about Adobe Reader's security flaws, the free FoxIt PDF viewer is a simpler, and accordingly safer, alternative.

I just had a thought. What if ambulances and emergency rooms had a laptop with a duel BIOS and no hard drive? USB drives would need to include the DOS command.com and a text file. Without a hard drive the laptop is OS independent, hence not venerable to viruses.

If by some chance a USB drive has a malicious code to wipe out the primary BIOS, the secondary BIOS can restore the primary BIOS.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#188864 - 11/22/09 12:30 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: JeanetteIsabelle
I just had a thought. What if ambulances and emergency rooms had a laptop with a duel BIOS and no hard drive? USB drives would need to include the DOS command.com and a text file. Without a hard drive the laptop is OS independent, hence not venerable to viruses.

It's easier just to have a separate laptop or PC in the emergency room that's off the network and keep an image backup of the disk on a CD or USB drive for quick restore. What your talking about is possible but would require a lot of custom development and have limited capability if limited to BIOS/embedded OS.

I don't think that EMT's have any time to be dealing with that stuff in an ambulance or first response situation. For that purpose, a necklace or bracelet sounds like the best solution.
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#188875 - 11/22/09 03:38 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Mark_M]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: Somewhere in Florida
Originally Posted By: Mark_M
It's easier just to have a separate laptop or PC in the emergency room that's off the network and keep an image backup of the disk on a CD or USB drive for quick restore. What your talking about is possible but would require a lot of custom development and have limited capability if limited to BIOS/embedded OS.

I don't think that EMT's have any time to be dealing with that stuff in an ambulance or first response situation. For that purpose, a necklace or bracelet sounds like the best solution.

I'm not suggesting an embedded OS. The laptop would be OS independent and USB drives would have their own tiny OS (DOS) and a text file with medical information. Without its own OS, the laptop would be immune to viruses. Though highly unlikely, it is still possible for a USB drive to contain a program to disable the BIOS. This is where a secondary BIOS is handy. I'm simply suggesting that there is a safe and easy way to plug a USB drive into a laptop. The hard part would be to set this up as a standard procedure.

Anyhow, I have a medical ID bracelet on my left wrist and a medical information card in my wallet, front and center.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
"Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble." -- Frederick Henry Royce

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#188909 - 11/22/09 06:14 PM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
I'd rather prefer a cell phone application for med/id data storage and exchange. Almost everyone carry a cell phone these days. And it's a powerful enough computer for the task. I remember I loved the idea of ICE entries in the phone book for EMT use - such a simple but very useful idea!

By the way, the bootable Windows XP OS is available as just a 78Mb disk image.

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#188920 - 11/22/09 09:24 PM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Alex]
pforeman Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 124
Loc: Iowa
The 'high tech' documentation is a good idea but often in emergency situations there isn't a quick/easy way to access it. To be really helpful it has to be RIGHT NOW. That's why an ID bracelet, necklace, watch fob or whatever is still the best way to go. Put the key info on a printed card in your wallet and that's what will work. EMS can spot the ID and know of an issue and the wallet card or even an info card on a necklace will be the emergency data needed for the first few minutes and/or that initial hour.

Go ahead and keep a full history and all sorts of supporting info on an SD card, USB drive or whatever too for every day carry but, the key info (diabetic, heart condition or whatever) is time critical and that's minutes - not until somebody can find a computer to look up your info. Just saying...

Paul -

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#188948 - 11/23/09 04:39 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Alex]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Alex
I'd rather prefer a cell phone application for med/id data storage and exchange. Almost everyone carry a cell phone these days. And it's a powerful enough computer for the task. I remember I loved the idea of ICE entries in the phone book for EMT use - such a simple but very useful idea!


There's an App for that!

But would you put that data on your phone and then not secure your phone with a password?

How long should a first responder delay treatment to check different places for emergency information? Necklace? Bracelet? Arm tattoo (difficult and painful to keep updated)? Wallet? USB Stick? Cellphone? PDA? Laptop?

My opinion on carrying data on a USB stick has changed. It wouldn't be any more useful for emergency treatment than a necklace or bracelet that says "NO PENICILLIN" or whatever and then "MORE DETAILS IN WALLET".

-------
I want an alert bracelet that says "IF FOUND, RETURN TO BELLVIEW PSYCHIATRIC HOSPITAL". smile
_________________________
2010 Jeep JKU Rubicon | 35" KM2 & 4" Lift | Skids | Winch | Recovery Gear | More ...
'13 Wheeling: 8 Camping: 6 | "The trail was rated 5+ and our rigs were -1" -Evan@LIORClub

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#188958 - 11/23/09 08:40 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: Mark_M]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Originally Posted By: Mark_M
[quote=Alex]
How long should a first responder delay treatment to check different places for emergency information? Necklace? Bracelet? Arm tattoo (difficult and painful to keep updated)? Wallet? USB Stick? Cellphone? PDA? Laptop?


I think you hit the nail on the head. Sure, carry a USB, card, tattoo, whatever. Personally, there's no way I'm going to let you have your heart attack/bleed out/stop breathing while I'm rifling through your pockets checking every electronic doo-dads there. I'm starting treatment.

If I see a bracelet, necklace, or tattoo (not my first choice, cuz I don't always undress a patient), I'll read it, cuz it's quick, simple, easily seen, and most importantly, easily accessible.

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#188959 - 11/23/09 09:42 AM Re: Best way to clue EMTs to medical facts? [Re: MDinana]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
The horse is dead, let's stop beating on it........


The true professionals have given us what we asked for, the answer.

Keep the primary info on the universally accepted method(s), and anything else however you wish. Failing that, don't expect it to be useful to your medical care in an emergency.


I will admit to recently receiving a USB drive/business card from a salesman that will be formatted for my medical info, and have the really important on-scene / ER stuff printed on the outside in a fold-out paper label.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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