Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#189120 - 11/24/09 08:27 PM Re: Street fighting [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yes, something along the lines of Gene Simmons wonderful pets in the 1984 movie "Runaway".
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#189123 - 11/24/09 08:42 PM Re: Street fighting [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Rodion Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/29/08
Posts: 285
Loc: Israel
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
Originally Posted By: Pete

Forget about lawyers and "lawyer frenzy". That will make your mind weak. You need to focus on your plan and execute it. The lawyers can wait for tomorrow. You don't have that long.



If your fear of lawyer frenzy distracts you from what you are doing, then chances are that it isn't self defense anyway.

The choice of using violence to protect yourself should be a rational choice: You don't do it unless you really have to. If you HAVE TO do it, then do whatever it takes with full force and no hesitation. See the recent "shooting aftermath" thread on this forum, it is highly relevant - after all, you're using your body as an instrument to cause grievous bodily harm and possibly death to an attacker. (This will be one end of the spectrum, the other extreme possibly being doing stuff like throw your wallet in his face, kick him in the knee and run).


Originally Posted By: Pete

If you are BOLD and you choose to fight back (... snip)

If you are CAUTIOUS, that approach can also be successful. (snip)


As for your two methods, applying every possibly trick, skill and method to detect, avoid or weasel your way out of danger does not exclude the possibility of physically defending yourself. In fact, if you've explored all the other options you KNOW there is no other alternative - and that will fuel your determination. You'd better fight like a cornered animal, because there is no other way out.

As a positive side effect, you also have just proved to the law that this is in fact a justifiable self defense situation.

Oh, and do mentally prepare yourself to run away at first opportunity. Staying means you have to incapacitate your opponents (if not, they'll recover and take you out), and that is a) messy, b) locks very bad in court. Create a window of opportunity, then RUN.

Originally Posted By: Pete

Criminals are intelligent predators. They are not stupid, or "misunderstood persons". They team up because that increases their chances of success.


You're right that if you're confronted it will be by someone who thinks they can take you out. It doesn't matter how strong or fit you are - they are MUCH better at judging your capacity for violence than you'll ever be. In that sense, we're all in your "somewhat prepared" group. I know I am "somewhat prepared" - I'm not really cut for martial arts (though I love the training, you can't change genetics). That doesn't mean I'm willing to lie down and give up.


My mental preparation is that I focus on getting away, no matter what it takes. Someone robs me, I comply and walk away, alive and unhurt. Someone bullies me, I weasel and sweet-talk myself out of it and walk away. I don't like the look of that gang in the parking lot, I walk away. I'm cornered and can't get away, can't sweet-talk myself out of it, can't bribe them with my wallet - THEN I literally run over whoever blocks my exit. Getting away from danger can be a whole-hearted, 100% commitment, and you use whatever means necessary, including ruthless violence.


I don't think I can devote the same determination to just "defending myself...", the idea being that I beat the offender(s) to a pulp and remain last man standing, waiting for the police and lots of beautiful babes to arrive and applaud me, the hero. I don't believe in that scenario, and can't commit myself to it. But getting away - I can and will commit myself to that.


This has got to be the most insightful I've ever heard about self-defense. Having a Master Plan like that is not something any of my teachers ever emphasized, it was usually "take out your opponent, move on to the next, rinse and repeat until done".
_________________________
Whenever you rest, someone, somewhere is training to kick your ass.

www.kravmagafederation.com

Top
#189127 - 11/24/09 09:20 PM Re: Street fighting [Re: Rodion]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Rodion

This has got to be the most insightful I've ever heard about self-defense. Having a Master Plan like that is not something any of my teachers ever emphasized, it was usually "take out your opponent, move on to the next, rinse and repeat until done".


Well, thank you, but credit should be given where it is due. I am very heavily influenced by this guy:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

Top
#189136 - 11/24/09 11:42 PM Re: Street fighting [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Rodion: I train in 2 systems. One of them is the Krav/Lotar system from Israel. It's an excellent system - esp. when the folks teaching it try to make the training scenarios realistic.

MostlyHarmless: I should probably have explained. There are times when I am responsible for other peoples' safety as well as my own. If it was just me - I would spend more time running away from threats :-) But I can't always be sure that other people will run fast enough. So that puts me in the situation of expanding my possible responses.

Pete


Edited by Pete (11/24/09 11:44 PM)

Top
#189139 - 11/25/09 12:22 AM Re: Street fighting [Re: Pete]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2954
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Originally Posted By: Pete
Jeanette: Speaking as a guy - I can say that "dying" isn't a really great option for me either.

I'm sure you've read what I was replying to and can imagine why I said what I said.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

Top
#189148 - 11/25/09 01:47 AM Re: Street fighting [Re: Jeanette_Isabelle]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Jeanette:
No doubt you're right. I probably just looked at your last comment without tracing the conversation further back. However, my response was offered in jest - it was not at all serious.

As a newcomer (actually ... a returnee from a very long time ago), I have not been paying attention to some of the fine details of how this blog is organized. But now I see that each person can reply to specific earlier comments in the thread (not all blogs allow this). So I'll try to track the conversations in more detail.

cheers,
Pete

Top
#189155 - 11/25/09 02:39 AM Re: Street fighting [Re: Pete]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Pete -- Under "Topic Options" at the top of the page you can select threaded mode if that makes it easier to follow discrete conversations.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

Top
#189163 - 11/25/09 04:06 AM Re: Street fighting [Re: Russ]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Russ: Thanks! Doug Ritter has got a sophisticated system going here. But that's all good - I'll take your tip and try to use it.
Pete

Top
#189166 - 11/25/09 04:46 AM Re: Street fighting [Re: Pete]
Jeanette_Isabelle Online   content
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/13/06
Posts: 2954
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Ah, that would explain what has been going on. Pete, it came across to me as though you did not know who said what hence why I thought it necessary to repeat myself.

Jeanette Isabelle
_________________________
I'm not sure whose twisted idea it was to put hundreds of adolescents in underfunded schools run by people whose dreams were crushed years ago, but I admire the sadism. -- Wednesday Adams, Wednesday

Top
#189212 - 11/25/09 07:08 PM Re: Street fighting [Re: Rodion]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Rodion

Before this thread winds down ... I just wanted to explain one comment that I made. BTW, previously I have been adding random replies on this thread (instead of replying specifically to your post).

OK - the subject came up about "executing a plan". So let me explain what I mean - and what I don't mean.

First, I DON'T mean the kind of choreographed plan for self-defense where you decide "OK, I'm going to step left, then hit with a left jab, then kick". That kind of choreography can't possibly work in a random, violent situation (although the strategy might work if a specific enemy makes the wrong moves!).

In order to understand what I mean by the word "plan", it helps to put yourself in the shoes of your enemies on the street. Let's suppose, for example, that you are in a strange town and walking at evening. Your enemy in this case is a street gang with about 5-6 guys. Now - put yourself in the situation of the gang leader. Think through what he's likely to do. First, he's got a bunch of guys that are willing to fight (which is good for him and bad for you). But he's got the problem that if he simply corners you, you can run away. So it's not smart to for him to just randomly confront you. Therefore ... think it through from his point of view. If he wants to get you, it's better to confront you when he can also use his guys to block your escape. For example, the gang can can threaten you when you are crossing an intersection. Your natural move might be to retreat in the closest direction down one of the streets. The gang follows you - hot on your heels. But what they know - and you don't - is that the street is a blind alley. Or alternatively that some of the gang have positioned themselves to cut you off down the same street. Before you know it ... you are surrounded with multiple aggressive assailants. MAM's in your dictionary. Not a good thing. They are counting on you to become weakened by fear, surprise and confusion - even before they jump you. At this stage time is very short for you to respond.

So my point is this ... your attackers are likely to be following a strategy. It's not just random violence ... it is coldly calculated. Therefore, it really does help for you to analyze some likely scenario's and evaluate a general strategy that YOU will put into place. Having a strategy means you are not "disarmed mentally" by the surprise of an unexpected conflict, and you can start moving quickly to protect yourself.

You still have to think through these scenario's yourself. Decide on a few probable scenario's and work those. You can come up with effective responses if you think about it.

Pete

Top
Page 3 of 4 < 1 2 3 4 >



Moderator:  KG2V, NightHiker 
April
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 411 Guests and 70 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes
5367 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Corny Jokes
by Jeanette_Isabelle
11:47 PM
People Are Not Paying Attention
by Jeanette_Isabelle
07:49 PM
USCG rescue fishermen frm deserted island
by brandtb
04/17/24 11:35 PM
Silver
by brandtb
04/16/24 10:32 PM
EDC Reduction
by Jeanette_Isabelle
04/16/24 03:13 PM
New York Earthquake
by chaosmagnet
04/09/24 12:27 PM
Bad review of a great backpack..
by Herman30
04/08/24 08:16 AM
Our adorable little earthquake
by Phaedrus
04/06/24 02:42 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.