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#187856 - 11/09/09 11:54 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Susan]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Susan, the Good Samaritan law isnt a requirement-it simply protects those who choose to give aid from legal action, as I recall. Like, you cannot be held liable for someones death if you render aid and, as a result, that person dies, or suffers permanent damage, so long as you were acting in I guess would be called "good concience".
As for shooting someone; I have ALWAYS been taught that you continue to pull the trigger until the person or persons are no longer a threat. My perception of that would be when they stop moving. Granted, I would give verbal commands prior to pulling the trigger-once the trigger is pulled, there is no taking that back. So you either neutralize the threat, or you die trying. My hope is for the former. Sorry, but I couldnt bring myself to attempt to render aid to someone who was intent on causing me & mine harm...it may be cruel and callous, but I see no need to render aid to someone who intended to murder me, or cause me or mine harm.
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#187860 - 11/09/09 01:18 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: oldsoldier]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Let's do a little exercise. Call it "write your own police report". Assume that this police report will be forwarded to the district attorney in your county and may end up being reviewed by the grand jury. Please choose either A or B.

Report A

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS . Resident advised suspect had broken into his home and advanced on him with a handgun after repeated verbal warnings. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel. Contacted Detective Smith to follow up tomorrow.

Report B

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 am. Suspect was lying face down with numerous gun shot wounds to the back. I checked for pulse and determined suspect was DOA. I questioned the homeowner who advised that he was awakened by a noise and found the suspect in his home. After yelling an obscenity at the suspect, the suspect turned to run. The resident then fired several rounds at the fleeing suspect with an AK-47. I observed what appeared to be smudged blood stains leading from outside the house into the residence indicating that the suspect may have been dragged into the residence. No weapon was found on the suspect. I asked the resident if he could identify the suspect. The resident responded that "all those gang-bangers look alike -- I say shoot 'em all and let God sort them out. I hope he rots in hell."

Further investigation determined suspect to be John Smith, 16 YOA, lives with parents at the same house address on the next street. Smith was apparently intoxicated and opened an unlocked door not realizing he was at the wrong home. I took the homeowner into custody pending charges.

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#187864 - 11/09/09 03:07 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Apples and Oranges
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#187873 - 11/09/09 04:42 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Russ]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Quote:
Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest

While something like that may sound good in court, you have to make it into court in the first place. Which may not happen if that bleeding suspect decides he's not quite incapacitated yet and kills you first. "He's been shot, therefore he's harmless" is not a statement I'd buy into blindly.

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#187907 - 11/09/09 09:07 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: celler
Let's do a little exercise. Call it "write your own police report". Assume that this police report will be forwarded to the district attorney in your county and may end up being reviewed by the grand jury. Please choose either A or B.

Report A

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident knelt over suspect applying pressure to two gunshot wounds to suspects chest. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS . Resident advised suspect had broken into his home and advanced on him with a handgun after repeated verbal warnings. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel. Contacted Detective Smith to follow up tomorrow.

Report B

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 am. Suspect was lying face down with numerous gun shot wounds to the back. I checked for pulse and determined suspect was DOA. I questioned the homeowner who advised that he was awakened by a noise and found the suspect in his home. After yelling an obscenity at the suspect, the suspect turned to run. The resident then fired several rounds at the fleeing suspect with an AK-47. I observed what appeared to be smudged blood stains leading from outside the house into the residence indicating that the suspect may have been dragged into the residence. No weapon was found on the suspect. I asked the resident if he could identify the suspect. The resident responded that "all those gang-bangers look alike -- I say shoot 'em all and let God sort them out. I hope he rots in hell."

Further investigation determined suspect to be John Smith, 16 YOA, lives with parents at the same house address on the next street. Smith was apparently intoxicated and opened an unlocked door not realizing he was at the wrong home. I took the homeowner into custody pending charges.


Report C

I arrived at the scene at approximately 1:00 a.m. Observed resident covering suspect with shotgun, informing me that the suspect threatened to kill him if he came near. Resident asked me about status of EMS and showed me location of suspect's handgun which I secured. I questioned the resident following arrival of EMS. Resident advised that he did not want to discuss further until he had a chance to speak with legal counsel.

I choose C.

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#187942 - 11/10/09 04:50 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: oldsoldier]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
OldSoldier, I feel the same way you do. I was simply curious about the statement that had been made. I'm not going to approach a perp if he's standing up with bullet holes in him, if he's down with bullet holes in him, if he appears to be breathing or not, or if his head is 30 feet from his body.

By the time he hits the floor I am out of here, running down the street to Judy's house to call 911. And I'm not going back into the house until the LEOs assure me that he is dead and out of the house or alive, trussed and out of the house.

Sue

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#187970 - 11/10/09 04:31 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Pete]
Mark_F Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 714
Loc: Kentucky
A few disclaimers to start:
1) I believe everyone should have the right to defend themselves.
2) Check with your local LEOs and probably an attorney for any responsibilities and legal ramifications as each locality is different.

The problem here appears to be that 911 was not promptly called and the supposed victims continued to assault the perp after he was disarmed. Not saying I think he didn't deserve it. He probably did. I am just wondering on the time frame between the initial assault and when 911 was finally contacted. I think we are all assuming it happened fairly quickly, but what if it didn't? If someone broke into your home and you disarmed them do you then have the right to hog tie and gag them and torture them for a few hours before calling the LEOs? Not much different from what might have happened to this guy. Don't gang up on me everyone, just trying to give you something else to think about. Always playing the devil's advocate, can't help myself.
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#188042 - 11/11/09 02:57 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Susan]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted By: Susan
Don't take a knife to a gun fight. Or is that 'Don't take a gun to a bat fight'?


1) People underestimate the seriousness of blunt force trauma. A baseball bat is truly a lethal weapon. It isn't like the movies.

2) Lecture why not to talk to cops, pt 1 & 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

-john

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#188866 - 11/22/09 12:52 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
Mark_M Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 295
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: celler
Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.

That is the best free legal advice ever given. Give name, ID, your lawyer's phone number and admit no fault. Sort through the rest after you've calmed-down and spoken to your attorney.

Most people will try to give too much detail too quickly, and the officer may misinterpret things or not be able to accurate record everything you say. If it ever gets to court, opposing attorney will pounce on every opportunity to twist your words around or invalidate your testimony. It stinks, but I've I've had it happen to me and others I know.
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