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#187532 - 11/05/09 04:18 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: oldsoldier]
barbakane Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 205
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: oldsoldier
Dont get me wrong-I think the guy got what he deserved. But, the law will look at it as once he was disarmed, he was no longer a threat. Now, if it were me...the only two that wouldve witnessed any of it would be the burglar and myself-and, the only one left alive to tell the story wouldve been me...

What an awesome comment. I haven't laughed like that at a post in a long while. Thank you!
_________________________
seeking to balance risk and reward
Audaces fortuna iuvat...fortune favors the bold
Practice methodical caution...Les Stroud

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#187557 - 11/05/09 03:02 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: celler
Resist the temptation to tell your side of the story in the heat of the moment after a dramatic event. Getting in touch with your attorney could save you thousands of dollars and many sleepless nights later. Sad, but unfortunately, likely true.


+ many.

If someone might cause you any legal problems, professional advice is almost always in order. Taking the time to talk with the lawyer provides time for you to calm down.

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#187668 - 11/06/09 05:23 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Dan_McI]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I had a guy tell me one time on another forum that in the event of a home invasion to get a good look at the perp so I could identify him to authorities. I told him identifying the perp would be pretty easy...

"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."

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#187675 - 11/06/09 12:34 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: 2005RedTJ]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ
<snip>"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."


Please understand that what I am about to say is intended to be helpful, not critical. I believe in your and my right to self-defense.

I hope you are never involved in a deadly-force situation and most of us never will. However, if by some stroke of fate you are and some over-zealous prosecutor decides that you "had it in" for the scumball that broke into your house and goes searching around the internet for your opinions on such issues, you don't want him finding that post.

The internet is not as anonymous as we think it might be. I never write anything that I would not want a judge to see.

In the situation you described, if I could determine that the threat had ended, I would render first aid to this individual and hope he lived. And believe me, I'm not a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. Some LEOs involved in use of deadly force are never able to come to terms with it and leave the profession. Its something to be avoided if at all possible and, at least for me, has led me seek to become more proficient in less-lethal responses.

As always, YMMV.

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#187682 - 11/06/09 02:34 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
When I took my CCW class, they hammered it home that if you are ever involved in a shooting, ask for a lawyer and keep your mouth shut, no matter what the circumstances. As the above poster mentioned, things happen, and people with ulterior motives can find ways to trip you up.

My CCW instructor also mentioned that as LEO's go through their classes, they are also taught to be quiet and ask for a lawyer - and not discuss the shooting with other LEO's. So it's the same advice for all parties concerned, for your own protection.

He also mentioned the "time compression" phenomenom. In high stress, what seems like 10 minutes can be 30 seconds of real time. People get excited, don't know about this, and talk their heads off. It comes back to haunt them in court, they appear as an unreliable person or a liar if they get the time sequence wrong. Which they almost always do, because of this. Better to be quiet and ask for a lawyer.

It's too bad we have to think this way, but that's the way it is these days.

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#187695 - 11/06/09 04:37 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: sodak]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
so....after shooting a home invader, its NOT appropriate to twitter and send cell phone pictures to facebook?

Good to know. grin
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#187701 - 11/06/09 05:40 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: comms]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
You guys know the old saying ...

Better to be judged by twelve
Than carried by six!

You can never guarantee what will happen to you in a court of law in the USA. The important thing is to come out of this experience alive. Use as much force as necessary to guarantee your survival ... and then run the he** out of there.

After that, the more you talk - the more you create doubt about what happened. Keep it simple. "This guy said he was going to kill me, I was scared sh**less! I hit him ... and I ran."

End of story.

Pete

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#187711 - 11/06/09 07:12 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Pete]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Better to have the Grand Jury not indict.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#187721 - 11/06/09 09:29 PM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: Russ]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
The best advice would probably be next time be better prepared for such an event. That way you can avoid witnesses/survivors and keep it contained. The outcome would be a lot more predictable if the picture was from the coroner's office instead of the booking station.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#187763 - 11/07/09 04:09 AM Re: Don't take a gun to a bat fight? [Re: celler]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Originally Posted By: celler
Originally Posted By: 2005RedTJ
<snip>"That's him laying in a pile, bleeding all over the floor, officer. Oh, and I'm going to want those JHP's back, so I can measure them for expansion and penetration."


Please understand that what I am about to say is intended to be helpful, not critical. I believe in your and my right to self-defense.

I hope you are never involved in a deadly-force situation and most of us never will. However, if by some stroke of fate you are and some over-zealous prosecutor decides that you "had it in" for the scumball that broke into your house and goes searching around the internet for your opinions on such issues, you don't want him finding that post.

The internet is not as anonymous as we think it might be. I never write anything that I would not want a judge to see.

In the situation you described, if I could determine that the threat had ended, I would render first aid to this individual and hope he lived. And believe me, I'm not a bleeding-heart criminal coddler. Some LEOs involved in use of deadly force are never able to come to terms with it and leave the profession. Its something to be avoided if at all possible and, at least for me, has led me seek to become more proficient in less-lethal responses.

As always, YMMV.


For me, the simple truth is that I can't determine another person's intent above and beyond the situation that they are in my house, uninvited.

I deal with people every day who've had a break-in or even a home invasion. My customer today had a home invasion 2 nights ago while they were in their bedroom. When a person breaks into your home, while you are home, I wouldn't think they are there to bake cookies.

Talking on a daily basis with people who've survived a home invasion puts things in a different perspective for me. Probably 90% or more of the people in the US think they are safe in their own home, but thinking that nothing bad can happen to you there is just living in denial.

My life and those of my family and friends are worth the minor hassle of me keeping a gun either on me or within arms reach. Due to what I hear every day from people who've been there, I'll never be one of those people who thinks you should just whip out the phone, dial 911, and smile knowing help is on the way.

I may be a little verbal about my opinions, but I believe strongly in my right to provide for the safety and security of anyone who I invite into my home.

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