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#187385 - 11/04/09 01:35 AM Re: Dogs: notifiy law enforcement [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5341
Originally Posted By: Dagny
Originally Posted By: Russ
Best thing to do IMO would be to close ranks and ignore them -- maybe even to the point of turning your backs to the dogs.

Unless I had Kevlar underwear on -- granny-size -- that would seem awfully risky.
Depends on the dog's motivation. What it does is break contact and deescalate the encounter. Some dogs bark at a "threat", but when the "threat" ignores the barking and turns away, it's no longer a threat. I was at a GSD breeder a few years back and one of her problem dogs was in the front barking at me thru the fence. I sat down with my back to the fence; the barking slowed and stopped and I could feel her behind me doing the sniff-sniff thing that dogs do. Later I had good physical contact with her and the breeder was surprised because that dog supposedly didn't like men -- it's a trust thing.

Here in our back yard the neighbors had two large dogs they were keeping for friends. Lots of barking aimed at us. We turned our backs and the dogs seemed confused. They were being ignored. Act like an alpha but in a non-threatening manner. Dogs gravitate to a strong alpha; it makes them feel secure.

Rotties are powerful dogs, but in the end they're just dogs, and they have the same drives and motivations of other dogs. I like the breed. When I leave CA and move back to my other home (possibly sooner than later) a Rottweiler will be on my short list.

That said, Rottweilers (just like any dog) need to be well socialized. A Rott that has had no contact with humans other than its owner can be dangerous. It doesn't know anyone other than its small/limited pack and an encounter off leash can be ugly. I suspect that to be the case with Blast's encounter. Two dogs which have not been properly socialized and don't know how to act around other humans.

Watch Cesar Milan make initial contact with a problem dog. It's very enlightening and it's not a trick.

Edit to add text and a link

Edited by Russ (11/04/09 01:53 AM)
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

#187387 - 11/04/09 01:58 AM Re: Dogs: notifiy law enforcement [Re: Blast]
Susan Offline

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
"... the students who stood there screaming in fear."


Yes, I'm sure nothing excites the killer instinct more than the sound of prey in full hysteria. cry

Would one of the screamers just happen to be the one who made comment on your NRA sticker?


#187402 - 11/04/09 03:26 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: RoverOver]
Eric Offline

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Originally Posted By: RoverOver
Hey Eric, Get Real!Also,Try that tactic on BlackBear/Cougar/Feral Dogs,You will likely become they're guest for lunch!Wild Hogs as well!

RoverOver - I must not have been clear enough. My main point was that drawing a gun will not be perceived as a threatening action by most animals. So if you pull it out you are most likely going to use it, which is pretty much the point with a gun anyway. With non-feral dogs (they had collars etc.) running loose a more graduated response that worked with the instincts and drives of pack predator worked well enough.

To address the points you brought up I'll trying my sub point again, generally speaking it is better to be seen as part of the predator group than the prey group. Prey runs and running will get you attacked most of the time, especially by dogs. Conversely, there are lots of recorded incidents of people standing off and even chasing off dogs and cougars (to use your examples) by "attacking" or at least refusing to retreat. I could probably even dig up an example of someone chasing off a bear.

I don't know anything that will stop a wild hog short of death.

For what it is worth, I have used the tactics I described on multiple occasions with loose dogs and feral dogs without becoming lunch. I have also seen an 8 pound, declawed siamese cat chase 3 German Shepherds out of "her" yard by attacking very loudly. I have seen a much larger, fully armed wildcat torn to shreds by the same dogs because it tried to run.

Blast did very well in a tough and scary situation. He used his judgement and the tools at hand to resolve the situation at little cost except an adrenaline rush. He also had a viable fall back position.

- Eric

You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton

#187403 - 11/04/09 03:43 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Blast

It would have been interesting to see their response, especially after one commented on the NRA sticker on my truck.

Vegans, having a problem with an NRA sticker, living in ... Texas? They're going to have an interesting social life.

That was a lot of dog, and they clearly do not respect her either. She's got safety issues for herself and doesn't know it.

#187406 - 11/04/09 04:35 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Eric]
RoverOver Offline

Registered: 01/16/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Kali4nya
Hey Eric,I got your 1st/2nd point,It doesn't pertain to me!Read my post again,I PRAISE Blast for his actions!I NEVER said anything about Running away.Note that I carry a sidearm,with Rat shot/Glaser bullets as my 1st&2nd rounds to fire.Warning shots at the dogs,or at their feet,is something they WILL recognize!I've been attacked by Dogs,whilst Unarmed,I know what it Feels like to be bit,I know what 8-Rabies shots at 1 time feels like!Blast didn't ask for any Fecal Matter,of which 1st/2nd points are.He asked whether his response was Proper,& I say Yes,as he is here to tell of it!Hey BLAST,Sorry for the slight Hijacking of Fecal Matter,I felt I had to Defend my posting!

#187407 - 11/04/09 04:42 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: Blast]
Desperado Offline

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Blast
Thanks all. My first thought was "shoot the dogs". They were big and very mean-sounding/acting. My wife was attacked by a loose dog years ago and has been terrified of them ever since. This means I can't have a dog, only nice, safe cats. shocked This makes me especially sensitive to loose dogs. Doubly so if my kids are present. Luckily they weren't there on Sunday.

The pepper spray is a good idea, it gives me an option between stick and bullet and also is less likely to upset my students. REI has some nice bear sprays and I have a coupon...

Sidenote: a Rottweiler can shrug off a strong blow to the head.


Always mind the direction of the wind. If you get it wrong, you will know.....
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.


#187408 - 11/04/09 04:50 AM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: HerbG]
Desperado Offline

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: HerbG
Can anybody share any personal experiences about the effectiveness of pepper sprays on large aggressive dogs? Does it really halt an attack in its tracks or is there a lag time?

I have personally used it multiple times (when I worked for Ma Bell), and it is about 85% effective on untrained dogs.

I encountered one German Shepherd and one mutt that I swear liked the stuff though.

Trained K9's are another subject entirely. Keep in mind it has to be OC. CS and CN do not cause a dog any problems.
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.


#187421 - 11/04/09 09:22 AM Re: Dogs: notifiy law enforcement [Re: NightHiker]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: NightHiker

I'm not pointing fingers but I notice a lot of people saying that a call to law enforcement about the owner/dogs is in order. I totally agree but....

Getting into the habit of depending on law enforcement (city police, county sheriff, park rangers, etc) for protection is a dangerous mindset. There's a somewhat sarcastic saying that "when seconds count the police are only minutes away" that's a excellent reminder that nobody else has as vested an interest in the safety of you and your loved ones as you do.

Agreed - however swift the response, the situation will be concluded (positive or negative) when the police arrives - IF they arrive at all.

I guess I should have stated this more clearly: The major point in calling in the authorities is that the silly woman should have a paper trail of negligent and improper handling of her dogs. Even if no action is taken at that point, your complaint is still on record. If and when something else happens, your complaint WILL come back to haunt her at a later point. Hopefully nobody will get hurt before the authorities takes some kind of action...

Never underestimate the power of a paper trail....

#187422 - 11/04/09 11:14 AM Re: Dogs: notifiy law enforcement [Re: MostlyHarmless]
celler Offline

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Another option you may consider is snake shot/rat shot/pistol caliber shot shells. Back in the day when I was picking blackberries in the undergrowth in North Carolina, I always carried a revolver and the first two rounds were snake shot followed by four jacketed hollow points. I figured I was most likely to encounter snakes which the shot shell could effectively deal with. In the only agressive dog encounter I had under those circumstances, a shot shell round fired in front of the dog was sufficient to change his mind without the fear of bouncing a heavy lead round into an unexpected place. The shot shell has a very limited effective range. Buy a box and put a few rounds on target to see if this would work for you.

#187427 - 11/04/09 01:58 PM Re: Dogs: the proper response? [Re: HerbG]
el_diabl0 Offline

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 301
Loc: NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: HerbG
Can anybody share any personal experiences about the effectiveness of pepper sprays on large aggressive dogs? Does it really halt an attack in its tracks or is there a lag time?

A friend of mine is a letter carrier and he's used pepper spray numerous times. Says it works great.
Improvise, adapt, and overcome

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