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#186720 - 10/28/09 01:47 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: TheSock]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
Originally Posted By: TheSock

This 'new'surveillance is not new. your neighbour could always watch you by simply looking out the window. your boss could always watch you by standing behind you. And i'd be annoyed if my child had a place at the local good school stolen, becuase the council didn't investigate fraudulent entries.


Oh really? IE 6? From work? I didn't even need to use my admin rights here for this one:

"20 Oct, Tue, 16:08:15","155.192.33.21","-","Nationwide Building Society","Europe","United Kingdom","Swindon","Swindon","51.5167","-1.7833","MSIE 6","Windows XP","1280x1024","32 Bit (16.7M)","JS Enabled","","","","http://www.bruxelles.irisnet.be/en/tourismeloisirs/tourisme_et_loisirs/sortir_a_bruxelles/restaurants_a_bruxelles.shtml"

I can go MUCH further if you like, without needing my admin access to this forum. You tell me a time in the past where I - here in the USA - could monitor YOU? From home? Yes, you can "opt-out" of the systems of western society to a degree, but you really can't fully opt out unless you decide to not drive, shop, get medical care, own real estate or vote.

I agree that the government could care little for the YOU or ME specifically, however, as anyone who has visited certain web sites that I won't even name here, the tools needed to monitor other people are very much available and used recreationally and criminally. Suffice it to say that I gave up on the idea of REAL privacy about 10 years ago.




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#186721 - 10/28/09 01:57 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: MartinFocazio]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
very true martin; but i was replying to specific points

> 'you can watch your neighbours homes on CCTV via your cable
TV box'
>'your employer can secretly watch you using hidden CCTV'.

neither has ever needed cameras for that. they can use their eyes. you can't stop neighbour looking out his window, or your your boss watching you work .
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#186722 - 10/28/09 01:59 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: MartinFocazio]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
very true martin; but i was replying to specific points

> 'you can watch your neighbours homes on CCTV via your cable
TV box'
>'your employer can secretly watch you using hidden CCTV'.

neither has ever needed cameras for that. they can use their eyes. you can't stop neighbour looking out his window, or your your boss watching you work .
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#186723 - 10/28/09 02:00 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: TheSock]
TheSock Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
actually re-reading what i wrote you are right. i should have said 'these specific points you raise are not new' web surveillance is of course new. i phrased it badly.
The Sock
_________________________
The world is in haste and nears its end – Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

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#186733 - 10/28/09 03:16 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: TheSock]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

There is one thing in favour regarding data security in the UK over the laws in the US and that is the UK Data Protection Act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Act_1998

Personal Data Protection Laws in the US are virtually non existent, which is why there are European directives which prohibit the export of personal information outside the European Economic Area.

BTW the Cuban Authorities never stamped my passport to say I have actually visited the country. wink

What I always remember about my visit to Cuba was the death of Payne Stewart and the crash of the only Cubana DC10 I had flown on back to the UK a few weeks later (I remember sitting in La Habana airport looking at probably the one of the most unsafe modern airline Aircraft ever built operated by one of poorest airlines in terms of safety and thinking; oh man do I really have to get on this aeroplane and that was after getting to Cuba on an Cubana Russian built IL62). Whilst I was vacationing in Varadero (Hurricane Irene hit the Island during my stay there) I got got talking to some local Cubans who were excited about the imminent visit of Payne Stewart (first US Golf Pro to play in Cuba ince the early 1960s since the over throw of Batista). A week later he was dead. In all the news coverage following his death there was nothing about him breaking the US embargo of Cuba a week or so earlier.

Tin hat has now been removed blush

Cuban Whisky is vile BTW and the supplied Tropicana Night Club bottle of Havana Club needs at least 3 cans of non diet Coca Cola not just the one which was supplied. laugh



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#186737 - 10/28/09 04:56 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Was that eXTReMe Martin?
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#186768 - 10/28/09 08:53 PM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: NightHiker]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Am I reading that correclty? £15,000(~$24,500 at todays exchange rate) to screw a electronic tag to a plastic lid?
No. That's the cost for fitting equipment to the dustcart that reads the chip. I expect it includes the cost of the computer, the RFID reader, and I imagine the back of the lorry is a fairly hostile environment for electronics which would push the price up.

In any case, it's more speculation than something that's actually happening. If they did start charging for household rubbish disposal, it would encourage fly-tipping and we'd all have to get padlocks for our bins, human nature being what it is. Also, the binmen don't always return the bins to the household they came from. It's a crackpot idea.

(Sorry to post off-topic; this has very little to do with survival equipment.)
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#186801 - 10/29/09 02:12 AM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: NightHiker]
Redbeard Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 22
Loc: CA state of confusion
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

Welcome to the UK.

And your cell phone company can track you whilst you use your cell phone.

(list snipped)



Nothing different in the USA, at all. The list is identical, and dare I say, it's a contest between the US and UK.


THERE'S A CHIP IN MY GARBAGE BIN???
Great, now I gotta wrap THAT in tin foil..and just when my neighbors looked like they were going to start talking to me. cry


nah, just hit it with a bit of electricity and fry it. whistle


Edited by Redbeard (10/29/09 02:13 AM)
_________________________
Never Land On Your Face

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#186804 - 10/29/09 03:29 AM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Redbeard]
James_Van_Artsdalen Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 449
Loc: Texas
If they put an RFID chip in my trash can I'll build another Tesla coil to solve that problem...

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#186806 - 10/29/09 03:34 AM Re: "Confiscated for the common good" [Re: Redbeard]
Pete Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 1372
Response to the original question.

There's NO way that the US Gov't is going to commandeer food or water supplies from average citizens. It ain't happenin'. If they try it - they will get a face full of bullets. Seriously!

The REAL problem is the folks in your town or city. If things get desperate and they have no food - you better believe some of them could very well try to steal it (or take it by force) from you. This survival forum is a rare "skill set". Very few Americans have anything in the way of real survival skills any more, and most people in major cities don't have more than a few days worth of food and drink (if even that). The only thing people know about survival is watching "Man vs. Wild" on TV - and none of them have ever tried it.

Things are going to get downright ugly if you find yourself in a crisis zone in the USA, esp. if you are inside (or near) a major city. Look at what happened in New Orleans after Katrina. The place was a hellhole, and FEMA wasn't close to coping. Do you know what their local joke was down there? It goes like this ...

FEMA Rescue Plan: "Run Bitc* ... Run!"

No kidding.

If you want to hang onto your stuff, be prepared to hide it, move it, or defend it.

Pete


Edited by Pete (10/29/09 03:36 AM)

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