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#186068 - 10/21/09 06:59 PM The Trouble with Spot
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal


This just in from the NPS Morning Report. Technology can be a blessing, and sometimes a curse....

Today's Report | Recent Editions
Wednesday, October 21, 2009


INCIDENTS

Grand Canyon National Park (AZ)
Hikers Evacuated After Three SPOT Activations In Three Days

On the evening of September 23rd, rangers began a search for hikers who repeatedly activated their rented SPOT satellite tracking device. The GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston reported that someone in the group of four hikers – two men and their two teenaged sons – had pressed the “help” button on their SPOT unit. The coordinates for the signal placed the group in a remote section of the park, most likely on the challenging Royal Arch loop. Due to darkness and the remoteness of the location, rangers were unable to reach them via helicopter until the following morning. When found, they’d moved about a mile and a half to a water source. They declined rescue, as they’d activated the device due to their lack of water. Later that same evening, the same SPOT device was again activated, this time using the “911” button. Coordinates placed them less than a quarter mile from the spot where searchers had found them that morning. Once again, nightfall prevented a response by park helicopter, so an Arizona DPS helicopter whose crew utilized night vision goggles was brought in. They found that the members of the group were concerned about possible dehydration because the water they’d found tasted salty, but no actual emergency existed. The helicopter crew declined their request for a night evacuation, but provided them with water before departing. On the following morning, another SPOT “help” activation came in from the group. This time they were flown out by park helicopter. All four refused medical assessment or treatment. The group’s leader had reportedly hiked once at the Grand Canyon; the other adult had no Grand Canyon and very little backpacking experience. When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, “We would have never attempted this hike.” The group leader was issued a citation for creating a hazardous condition (36 CFR 2.34(a)(4)). [Submitted by Brandon Torres, Canyon District Shift Supervisor]
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Geezer in Chief

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#186071 - 10/21/09 07:09 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: NightHiker]
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
I wonder what type of instructions they receiced when the rented the unit. Not that it matters but I would anticipate one outcome renters should be warned is to use only in an true emergeny or expect to get charges for the cost of wasting everyone's time.

I worry that this type of story will reoccur enough that evenatually all SAR efforts become billableand that folks in true need but limited resources will refrain from activating SPOT or PLBs for fear of the possible charges.

If so, it would be a cruel irony as the low cost of rescue electronics that makes it affodable could result in higher incured costs for rescue that makes it too expensive for the average recreation camper/hiker.
_________________________
Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#186077 - 10/21/09 07:35 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: billvann]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Grand Canyon seems to have a fair number of these situations. About a week ago, they received a SPOT 911 alert. When the ranger reached the group at dawn the next day, everyone was peacefully asleep in their tents.

It seems that a member of the party, awakened by what seemed to be signs of respiratory distress from the leader's tent, punched the panic button and then went back to sleep (!!??)

I'll bet that backcountry parties at Grand Canyon are now asked if they are carrying a PLB, and probably receive some guidelines on its proper use. Popular parks like Grand Canyon see wide ranges of skill and experience in visitors.
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Geezer in Chief

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#186079 - 10/21/09 07:44 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: hikermor]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Doesn't seem a SPOT specific issue. You could imagine the same incident happening with a PLB.

-john

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#186084 - 10/21/09 08:33 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: JohnN]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
The issue is nomenclature. 9-1-1 is the WRONG term to put on the device. First of all, 9-1-1 is not universal - it's 9-9-9 or 0-0-0 in other countries.

Secondly, 911 is a fast-response, local service. A simpler thing is a red button and that's it - no "9-1-1" response here.

Finally, there should be a cost for each 9-1-1 press. I'd say $200 is about right. If it's a real emergency, that's not a lot of money and anyone would press the button for help.




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#186085 - 10/21/09 08:46 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: MartinFocazio]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
It's a SPOT specific issue cause they've priced the gear and the service so cheaply that folks who would never have bought a PLB are buying the SPOT devices by the thousands.

It's reminiscent of the early days of 911 service where local police/fire agencies were inundated with "just wanted to see if this works" calls. In the case of people activating their SPOT devices, apparently they believe that they're to be used for inconveniences, not for emergencies.

The relatively high cost and "hard to get" attributes of a PLB make them far less likely to be abused by idiots.

_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#186086 - 10/21/09 09:01 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: JohnE]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
This country needs to find a way to tax stupidity. It would provide income for the government wastrels to blow, and might even take a bit of the load off the more intelligent taxpayers.

Sue


Edited by Susan (10/21/09 09:03 PM)

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#186088 - 10/21/09 09:33 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: JohnE]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

Originally Posted By: martinfocazio
The issue is nomenclature. 9-1-1 is the WRONG term to put on the device. First of all, 9-1-1 is not universal - it's 9-9-9 or 0-0-0 in other countries.


While you have a valid point, I didn't in this specific case that there was an issue with them not understanding what 911 meant.

Originally Posted By: JohnE
It's a SPOT specific issue cause they've priced the gear and the service so cheaply that folks who would never have bought a PLB are buying the SPOT devices by the thousands.


1) A phone isn't expensive and while sometimes abused, I don't see people suggesting we should make phones super expensive so people don't call 911.

2) Do you really want to make rescue something only available to the rich?

Come on guys, this isn't a SPOT issue, this is a stupid people issue.

-john

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#186089 - 10/21/09 09:35 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: Susan]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
First: I don't really expect that media will manage to get this story right... After passing through their "is this newsworthy?" - filter things often get a little twisted... don't hang 'em based on media reports alone...

However, given the humans incredible capacity for stupidity this sort of thing is just waiting to happen. Two quotes for the day:

Albert Einstein:
Quote:

Only two things are limitless: The Universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the Universe.


Cody Lundgren:
Quote:

There is no question that technical rescue gear has saved hundreds of lives. There is also no question that it has been, and always will be, abused. Since the advent of the personal cell phone, the stupidity of human nature has spawned an entirely new generation of gene-pool hang-ons that otherwise would have provided valuable fertilizer.


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#186092 - 10/21/09 09:55 PM Re: The Trouble with Spot [Re: hikermor]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: hikermor
When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, “We would have never attempted this hike.”


RIGHT THERE! That is the point when I think you should have consiquences. Would you have done this without magic feather XYZ should never be answered with "no". If it is, you really are doing it wrong. I don't mean things like "would you have tried off road trail this without 4wd" or "would you have climbed this ice face without you tech gear", but "would you have done this without your 'knowing' your cell phone/2m ham/sat phone/SPOT/PLB can summon someone automagically show up to rescue you from the predicament you placed yourself in".

It's like thinking that an ejector seat means you don't need proper maintenance and flight training to get in the cockpit of an aircraft.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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