That's what mine is, gore-tex and thinsulate. A suit setup that combines both (most just use thinsulate) isn't cheap either. IIRC, it was near $700 between the jacket and the bib. It's definitely worth it though, the Gore-Tex really helps when things start to get stupid cold. My boots, as well as my gloves now, are also gore-tex and thinsulate.

We were out night riding one time and the temperature was -25*F. Our average speed was probably 30-40 mph, which means a windchill of about -60*F. Even at that temperature it kept me comfortable enough to keep riding. The only places I could remember being truly cold are my hands (which is why I went out and bought new gloves) and the parts of my face where the vents in the helmet are (I had to keep the vents open a little while we were moving or my glasses would fog up and the fog would freeze solid). Otherwise, I was surprised I wasn't colder.

Edit: On a side note to Sue.

I have ridden with a backpack and I don't like it, at least not for the type of trails we ride. This is for a few reasons:

First, most packs aren't designed to be used with a snow suit, the straps just aren't long enough (at least for someone my size, a small stature person might have an easier time). Wearing one feels like wearing a rubber band around your shoulders and back.

Second, riding a snowmobile on twisty trails is bumpy. Anything you have in the pack tends to slam into your back, no matter how tight you seem to have it cinched. It exacerbates the typical pain one experiences after a hard day of riding (shoulder pain, lower back pain, leg pain)

Finally, it throws off your weight distribution and turning ability. When riding you have to lean a certain way to keep things stable. It actually requires more effort that riding a typical two-wheeled vehicle, like a motorcycle or a dirt bike, because the wide track on the sled prevents it from leaning into corners as well as a bike.

Therefore, backpacks (or just about anything mounted high on the sled) tends to want to go the opposite way you need to lean. In the least, it means you'll have to use more energy not only fighting the sled to move how you want it, but fighting the pack as well. At worst, it could lead to your balance being compromised, which could lead to the rider being thrown off or having to ditch the sled to stop from rolling/crashing.

Instead, you'll find most riders prefer saddle bags. They make versions that can go over the back of the sled or over the center mounted fuel tank. They keep the added weight lower to the ground, which upsets the balance and handling of the machine less. With that in mind, you won't often find most day riders using them, as they typically try to ride as light and fast as possible. Saddle bags are more typical among those using the sled in a working fashion or those going on long trips that require the need to carry a lot of gear/supplies.

Snowmobile suits:


I disagree - you need something to insulate from the ground. The material in the suit gets compressed under you, so you need a little extra between yourself and the ground. (Which is why sleeping on the snowmobile is such a good idea).

You can disagree, it is a free world that way.

Actually my experience sleeping out was a bit different.
I found the biggest thing was it had to be cold enough that the snow didn't melt under me.
I also have mixed feelings about goretex. It either makes me sweat or it leaks. I found that any type of waterproof layer on the outside when it was cold trapped moisture in my clothes. Cold weather gear has to breath so that the moisture goes away. This includes boots and gloves.

My biggest problem sleeping in my skidoo suit was keeping my nose warm.

I will say that any extra insulation under you will help especially if it keeps the snow cold enough to stay dry.
The worst conditions are when the snow is close to melting already because then your weight will cause it to melt and then you end up cold and wet instead of dry and warm.


But if you have a decent suit you can sleep out in it quite well, and yes you can just lay down in the snow. Snow itself is a pretty good insulator when it is dry and fluffy. It is such a good insulator that the ground is often thawed underneath it if you dig down through it.
Water which is melted snow is just the opposite.

If you are really stuck then making a quinze might be appropriate too. If you dig them down a bit you get out of the wind and start picking up some of the warmth from the ground. Lets face it, being sheltered in a space that is just a bit below freezing sure beats being outside at 40 below losing heat to the winds and to the stars.
Usually snow shelters are not as warm as a lean-to and a big fire though.


THERE IS A BIG WARNING HERE.
If you are cold do not go to sleep.
Hypothermia makes you feel sleepy and if you go to sleep from the cold you might never wake up!
Hypothermia also gives the illusion of warmth as it shuts your body down.
Kind of like how your skin quits feeling cold or pain as frostbite sets in.
So warm up for real before you doze off. If it takes a fire to warm you then light a decent fire.
Then if you get cold you will wake up and can do a little warm up dance before going to sleep again.

"Now Sue, new guy at the fire, asking good questions. He's on the right track. Cut him some slack."

*giggle*

He was talking about the guys at a snowmobile forum -- since he's HERE, I'm assuming he's smarter than that!

And about the pack... did I say backpack? I really just meant pack, a bundle to take along.

I told a friend about the guys standing around all night in a hole, around a fire, and she laughed, too. Sorry! But is IS funny. There's a cartoon in there, somewhere...

Sue

I'm assuming we would be comfortable and B.S.ing would certainly pass the night quicker than huddling in a shelter trying to sleep/pass the night. And B.S.ing is what we do best. If it were a blizzard or extremely cold, I would certainly break out the shelter building equipment which would be with me, just wondering about sleep, if cold? Which was answered, and hadn't thought about the sleeping pad which would be bulky, had assumed a lot of pine boughs would suffice, will consider the inflatable therma rest type pad, but the seat off of my sled would keep my aa...butt warm. Snow mobiler's generally carry a wood saw, for unexpected tree parking jobs. So fire wood would be plentiful... And collecting it would be a warming episode, and pass some time as well.

Not totally unusual. During my month out in Alaska, folks from all over the Delta would "snow-go" into Bethel. It was the only big town in an area the size of Oregon. Long rides were 10+ hours (and I assume hitting some villages on the way for gas). There were definetely trails out there, so if you broke down, chances are pretty good someone would find you... and actually stop.

Jay,

Sometimes our attitude and reaction to the attitude of others
can be more important than anything.
http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Survival-Who-Lives-Dies/dp/0393326152

www.deepsurvival.com

In Gonzales's book he uses an example: snowmobiler who was
survival trained and rescue trained; snowmobiler died as a
result of bad (macho) decision.

Now, you started the thread for food and it drifted to fire,
suits, shelter. This kind of drift is not unusual on a
Survival Website. If you had posted on a food forum,
you might not have suffered all the unsolicited advice.
And I would be saying,
"You're crazy if you don't take pickles".

Serious-up, prepare for lecture.

I see snowmobiler survival stories on the local news, and
sometimes these guys get hurt, and they get colder when
they get hurt, and they cannot gather much wood when they
get hurt.

Snow can cover all burnable wood in an area.

One (or more) may be stranded above timberline.

Any wood does not burn as well at higher altitude.

Blizzards can cause one to take a wrong trail, even if
one has GPS. Blizzards can hamper one's efforts at keeping
a fire going. Blizzard or wind can make one much colder.

You are right that, if you keep adding-to your "pack", it
gets heavier, you might want to leave it behind, but I think
some tarp for shelter should be considered.

It seems like some may regard an overnight as:
only a travel delay, and opportunity to eat snacks.
It might turn out that way, but an overnight might be
excruciating or fatal for you or a friend.

Jay, you may know all this and have things well in hand,
but, other readers of this thread, may be real green.

I've read and heard the same thing about goretex from other who live where it's really cold. I like it a lot, though, because I don't have to worry about the rain changing to snow type of thing, which is miserable; and I like it because it blocks the wind really well. For me, when I walk around and don't burn too much energy, I don't have any trouble with moisture build up. If I'm active, I start unzipping layers to keep cool. That's one reason why I like a zip up vest and button up shirt for layers, as compared to pull-overs. It's easier to regulate the insulation. But here, it's not as cold as the great white north, so I have an easier time of it I'm sure.

For boots, a leather/goretex combination doesn't breath well enough for me, but I have a pair of Browning hunting boots that are goretex/thinsulate with a combination of leather and cordura nylon for the outer layer. The course nylon seems to make it more breathable, but it might be in my head.

For gloves, well, they usually make my hands cold. I don't know if you can ride a snomobile with mittens, but a big pair of leather/goretex/thinsulate mittens is great for walking around. I buy about a size big, because anything constricting makes my hands cold. As far as gloves goes, somewhere I found a pair of theoretically army issue ones, with yet again goretex/thinsulate/leather - but they also had gussets (or however it's spelled), like on a space suit so you're fingers can bend easily, and really big boxy fingers. They're pretty warm, but not as good as mittens.

I agree with almost everything you said, it is easy to see you have plenty of snow time experience. Just some words of caution:

Snow will always melt if you squeeze it hard enough (pressure melting). With cold, dry and fluffy snow that water re-freezes in the crystals without you seeing it. Over time, this process aids in turning fluffy snow into compact ice. If it's less cold that water may be visible or be able to soak into your clothes.

Fluffy snow is an excellent insulator. Solid ice is not. Even if you lie down in dry, powdery snow it is only a matter of time before your weight and body heat has turned that powder into icy, hard crunched snow - which (unlike powdery snow) will transfer heat away from your body. As you noted, that melted water will be freely available to speed up the cooling process in less cold conditions.

Bottom line: Always use a groundsheet or at least improvise something to that effect. Never lie directly on the ground or on snow.

Hike for Fun, under my and more... comment I always include a space tarp, and in one of my many kits, is a fist sized space blanket that I have always been skeptical of, but never unpaked because it is currently very small and my repacking skills lack.
The estimated reason for being out all night certainly vary but I believe they rank as: 1. went down something under different snow conditions later in day and the snow softened up to the point of having to wait for it to firm up again, to climb that hill, 2. out of gas due to either incredible stupidity, = but probably a lost and looking for way out too long under adverse visibility(now I have a GPS but batteries die), 3. multiple breakdowns, or multiple very stucks, 4. Hurt and unable to get to trailhead and not wanting to split up till? morning. 5.6.7.... any multitude of issues, but stupidity probably is the common denominator. But number one seems to be rather common among the spent the night snowmobile crowd. But Hurt and unable to get wood is a new thought, and I'll have to consider it, but the buddy system is a must for me, so I'm assuming we both aren't hurt, but you never know! Oh, yea, I almost forgot AVALANCHE, that could hurt multiple riders? Fuel and a stove might be a good idea?