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#181799 - 09/09/09 03:58 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: scafool]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: scafool
You also don't want clothing that turns into fuel for a fire or that will melt and stick to your body...

I was wondering if I had missed that point last night. If they're going to take the time to stop and remove all the metal from their bodies before proceeding, or to take a pit stop in the restroom to do a little "freshening up" and wetting down their clothes, did they mention discarding clothing made of synthetics, like stockings or blouses and such?

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#181802 - 09/09/09 04:20 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Arney]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Yeah, I noticed that too. He even mentioned the "silk tie". But, that poor guy that got the 3rd degree burns was probably wearing polyester. I'm pretty sure from "10 feet away" that would melt.

I saw a video a few years ago during CERT training. Showing a fire fighter that had not put on a shirt, but had his bunker gear with the suspenders over his shoulders. There was a flash fire/explosion. He suffered 1st and 2nd degree burns (lucky guy!) over his chest. Only where the suspenders had covered his skin was he not burnt.

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#181803 - 09/09/09 04:24 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Arney]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: scafool
You also don't want clothing that turns into fuel for a fire or that will melt and stick to your body...

I was wondering if I had missed that point last night. If they're going to take the time to stop and remove all the metal from their bodies before proceeding, or to take a pit stop in the restroom to do a little "freshening up" and wetting down their clothes, did they mention discarding clothing made of synthetics, like stockings or blouses and such?


People would pretty much have to go naked if all non-fireprof clothing is to be removed.... granted, One could remove the worst synthetic materials (those that both melt and burn, and ignite at low temperatures), but most fabric burns pretty easily. The only commonly used clothing material I know of that has any fire resistance properties is wool, which really is excellent. But wearing wool in an office environment is not really that common, I think...

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#181806 - 09/09/09 04:43 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: MostlyHarmless
...but most fabric burns pretty easily....

Which would be one argument in favor of wetting down your clothes before hand.

Personally, I'm not sure which answer is correct--wetting down or keeping dry. What's proper for a fire fighter could be a very different application than these office workers. A fire fighter may need to stand their ground in the vicinity of flames and great radiant heat for some time, while the workers are more interested in just quickly getting past hazards like that wearing fairly flammable clothing.

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#181808 - 09/09/09 04:45 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 924
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
[quote]Throw most SFs a tin of Tuna and ask them to get to the contents without a P-38 and they would be stuffed


Reminds me of an old joke about a physicist, a mathematician, and an economist who get lost in the desert with only a can of beans and no can opener. They set to arguing about how to open the tin.

The mathematician suggests putting the tin on a hard surface and dropping a big rock on it to burst it open.

The physicist ridicules this notion and suggests building a campfire and placing the tin in the middle, so it will burst open from the heat. The mathematician finds this notion equally silly.

As they are arguing, the economist starts laughing at them. "Why do you need to make it so complicated?"

"Okay," they ask him, "how would you do it?"

"Easy," says the economist. "First of all, let's assume we have a can opener..."

For the vast majority of you who just went 'HUH?', the joke is that mathematicians are always accusing economists of basing their theories on unproven or even unrealistic assumptions about the real world. I tell the joke just to make the point that such "friendly rivalry" isn't confined to the armed forces of the world. :-)
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#181812 - 09/09/09 04:59 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: oldsoldier]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
If you have access to a Wool blanket, you could wet the blanket out and then use it as a radiant heat barrier between yourself and the source of the heat. Removing synthetic clothing materials such as Polyester fleece would be a good idea or if an a business environment its best to stick to a wool suit rather than the cheaper mass produced polyester ones eek. But it is usually hands and face that get the worst of the radiant heat burning. A silk or wool balaclava and gloves weigh nothing (leather gloves are preferable) and are easily kept in the inside pocket of a good wool business suit. If these are not available and time allows it might be preferable to remove your wool socks are use them as improvised gloves.

Heat rises along with hot toxic flammable combustible fumes which can flame out and roll along the roof spaces so its best to keep near to the ground where the air is somewhat cooler and cleaner. Chances are the smoke will get you before any fire will so a commercial smoke hood may make sense if you life or work in buildings higher than 5 stories. (higher than this and a Fire truck Ladder isn't going to get you down to safety)

As with everything else, paying attention to your surroundings and being prepared will greatly increase you chances of survival. If the fire alarm goes off then leave the premises immediately without having to seek permission from superiors, management or the seeking permission from the social group mentality. Knowing where the fire escapes are and how to navigate to them in the dark costs nothing and may just save your life well before having an ex SEAL stating his name to you and him saying how he going to save your life by rappelling from floor to floor with Ethernet cable. (even Chuck Heston and John McClane knew to use a fire hose reel) whistle



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/09/09 05:33 PM)

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#181814 - 09/09/09 05:25 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
I disagree with the show's advice to wet down garments. Water will convert to steam, and is an excellent conductor of thermal energy. This will increase, not reduce, the risk of injury.


Edited by Jeff_M (09/09/09 05:26 PM)

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#181815 - 09/09/09 05:33 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: MostlyHarmless]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
LA Police Gear has 5.11 fire-resistant T-shirts on sale for $5 each, down from $40. Quite a deal. The fit is generous; I have a 46"-47" chest and I found the XL a bit loose, but the L fit very nicely. The seams are all flat sewn and the armpits have a gusseted panel for an unrestricted fit.

A fire-resistant T-shirt doesn't make you fireproof but its one less thing to burn & melt into your skin.

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#181817 - 09/09/09 05:41 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Knowing where the fire escapes are and how to navigate to them in the dark costs nothing and may just save your life...

One aspect of the episode which seemed kind of funny for about two seconds until I got the point was taking a camera phone picture of the emergency evac sign next to the elevator, and also how Cade's "rear security" guy had to keep sticking those Post-it's along their route.

I think the average viewer may think those two actions are odd and ridiculous. But the average person doesn't realize how disoriented you can be in a fire--dim lightning, blinding smoke, stress, unfamiliar office layout on a different floor, etc. Unfortunately, thick black smoke makes for boring TV images so I don't think that they really got that point across in the show. They did show a lot of flames, though. Most people still probably think that "a fire" looks like a lot of flames when in reality there's a good chance you won't see any flames because you can't even see your hand in front of your face from all the smoke.

They never did have to backtrack and use those Post-it's, did they? I think that would have been an interesting thing to demonstrate and then people would understand why they did it.

Would first responders be trained to follow that Post-it trail? Personally, I think the bread crumbs were just for them, but maybe it's like someone stranded in the bush putting down an arrow showing their direction of travel? Or maybe to help them realize if they ever went in a circle.

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#181818 - 09/09/09 05:41 PM Re: new TV show to argue about: "Surviving Disaste [Re: Jeff_M]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
I would certainly disagree with the advice to wet down personal clothing garments as well, but wetting down a radiant barrier held out at arms length between a couple of people (or tied to a couple of poles at each corner) could provide a useful radiant heat barrier which could protect a group of people from the radiant heat source. Wetting down the blanket would increase the time it takes to reach its flash point temperature before it catches fire.

Even taking a door of its hinges and using this a radiant heat barrier could be improvised if time allowed.




Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/09/09 05:47 PM)

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