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#180990 - 08/31/09 11:43 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: thseng]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

Thermoelectric coolers are not very power efficient and actually produce a lot of heat, which would tend to heat the space in the back of a vehicle and would raise the temperature in the vehicle boot even higher. Conventional compressor technology refrigeration would give the highest efficiency and keep any stored food at the highest temperature differential to the ambient temperature. Again a solar panel (i.e a 40W semi flexible marine PV panel), Solar Charge regulator, light activated relay and SLA Battery (i.e. Xantrex 300, which would a useful vehicle battery backup anyway) could be setup to power the a refrigerator such as the Waeco CDF-18 mini freezer/refrigerator. Food and water could be stored in Vacuum Flasks within the refrigerator.

http://www.minicoolers.co.uk/products/waeco/cf18.htm

As you can see it is not a cheap solution to a difficult problem.


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#181110 - 09/02/09 12:08 AM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

<snip>
http://www.minicoolers.co.uk/products/waeco/cf18.htm
As you can see it is not a cheap solution to a difficult problem.


Very interesting solution indeed. The advertisement says 35 watts power consumption. I'm thinking about converting that to amps and calculating how long an Optima deep discharge marine battery might keep that going before requiring a recharge. What I am thinking of is leaving off the solar charge option because of the inefficiency of the cheap solar chargers and the great expense of the ones that would provide a useful charge. If I could get away with just recharging that battery once a week, that might be a viable alternative.

You could also just add a second battery to your vehicle and add an isolator switch to make sure your fridge does not run down your main battery. This would allow the vehicle alternator to charge the additional battery. Although I suspect that this option may only be available to truck and SUV owners with over-engineered alternators.

Craig.


Edited by celler (09/02/09 12:09 AM)

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#181209 - 09/03/09 01:20 AM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: Compugeek]
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
Take another look at Compugeek’s data. There is a factor you are missing. Time!

People have used thermal mass of heavy and thick walls to delay the effects of temperature swings between night and day. The hot day temperatures slowly heats up of the heavy mass walls keeping the interior cool until the onset of night. At night, the cool night temperature reverses the process, cooling the exterior until the interior cooled off. This delayed the hot temperatures until night time. The mass delayed the interiors heat cycle. To keep the interior relatively cool all the time, the windows and vents would be opened at night. It also works the same way with insulation, i.e. the foam cooler.

If you would look at his temperature table again, you will see the average difference between his night time exterior temperature and his inside cooler temperature is between 21 degrees and 22 degrees. I bet these low temperatures were also at night. If he had opened the lid and cracked the trunk during the night, he may have kept his interior cooler temperature closer to his goal of 75 degrees. This opening could be accomplished with manual labor, thermal ram, or motor. All of which is less complicated, less expensive, and more efficient than electrical cooling.


Edited by turbo (09/03/09 01:23 AM)
Edit Reason: Forum did not like degree symbol

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#181242 - 09/03/09 01:28 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: turbo]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
You're dead on about the temps. Lows were overnight, and the car was also in a garage, so its surroundings didn't even go that low. (I don't have a thermometer to use for the garage, though smile )

I thought about opening the trunk and cooler at night, but that's more work than I'm willing to do. (You got to know yer limitations.) I'm exploring other options to see what their effects are.

This week, I started with all four bottles frozen solid.
_________________________
Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#181256 - 09/03/09 03:21 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: Compugeek]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
What you start with should not matter. The final temperatures should still end up as a buffered and out of phase average of the high and low temperatures inside the car.

But it will still be interesting to see your results.
As they say, "A theory without an experiment is nothing but a faith."
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#181264 - 09/03/09 03:57 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: scafool]
LCranston Offline
2
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/31/09
Posts: 201
Loc: Nebraska
Maybe a simpler Cheat would be to buy one of those Solar fans to keep the temperature in the car the same as the outdoor temp- then instead of fighting with 120-135 degree highs, your inside the car temp might be closer to your outside the car temps.

This would cool in the day, but not affect your night time temps...

This would work for hatchbacks and SUVs, probably not work for a standard trunk.....

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#181315 - 09/03/09 10:00 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: LCranston]
Compugeek Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 392
Loc: San Diego, CA
I've used various of those solar window vents. Even a pair of them does not move enough air to make a significant difference. When you can't leave a window open more than a finger width they're better than nothing, but not much.
_________________________
Okey-dokey. What's plan B?

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#181456 - 09/05/09 08:08 AM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: Desperado]
adam2 Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/23/08
Posts: 474
Loc: Somerset UK
Originally Posted By: Desperado
Could something like this 12V cooler be powered by something like this solar battery tender?

Place the cooler in the trunk, and run the wiring to the PV in the rear window of the car?

Kinda a stretch I know, but an idea...


I dont believe that would work.
Thermoelectric coolers of the type pictured use several amps at 12 volts.
The PV module has stated output of 1.8 watts, which is probably a little over 0.1 amp at about 17 volts. And that is under ideal conditions, probably about 0.05 amp in practice.
At least 50 of those small PV modules would be needed and possibly as many as 100.

A 12 volt cooler could be powered from the vehicle battery, whilst the engine was running,which would help in the case of a vehicle in daily use.
However these 12 volt coolers are normally less well insulated than the non powered ones, therefore without power input the contents will warm up more quickly than in a regular cooler.

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#181694 - 09/08/09 08:22 PM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: adam2]
ducttape Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/04/06
Posts: 45
I use CLIF bars, they generally don't melt, compact for storage and more importantly, I like eat those. Sure they're not uber calorie packed like Datrek but I'll actually eat the CLIF. I do keep a pack of Datrek in the car but that's my last resort, something must really have gone wrong food.

Isn't that one of the top commandments to emergency food-get stuff you'll actually eat.

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#181775 - 09/09/09 08:43 AM Re: Emergency rations for storage in a car? Data! [Re: ducttape]
Basecamp Offline
Member

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 107
Loc: PNW
This article looks interesting:

"Dispelling the myth of stored food in a vehicle"

http://www.alpharubicon.com/bovstuff/dispellcarfoodmyth.htm

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