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#179119 - 08/12/09 02:37 PM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: LoneWolf]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
+ a bunch on that one. Just like "UMM", it is a verbal pause. I tell them to slow down and let the words come out at their own pace. I was able to teach my kids that along with the old "move your lips when you speak." The aforementioned phrase is demonstrated with great exaggeration. It got the point across. It is amazing how many compliments DW and I received about how well our children spoke. Made me feel as though I got at least one thing right.
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#179241 - 08/13/09 11:15 PM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: MoBOB]
Erik_B Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 315
Loc: Somewhere in my own little wor...
haha grammer nazi op dont lik it wen we dont talk right in teh internets he wants us all to use spellcheck and BRAINS i thing he shud liten up omg lol wtf bbq!!!11!


Seriously though, I get a bit irked when people can't be bothered to exercise the most basic grammar skills -stuff that we all, presumably, learn before the second grade in elementary school. "Typos" get a pass because a few mistakes are inevitable now and then, but at least make an effort to not look like you were nearing lethal inebriation when you typed the message. Especially on a message board, where you have plenty of time to proofread your message and even go back to fix errors after posting, there's no excuse for something like my opening line.
This and other language-related quirks(such as my tendency to churn out Adams-esque walls of text when excited) I blame on my having been raised by a teacher and a rocket scientist.
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Originally Posted By: scafool
Camping teaches us what things we can live without.


Originally Posted By: ironraven
...Shopping appeals to the soul of the hunter-gatherer.

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#179248 - 08/14/09 01:52 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Erik_B]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I hate the new spell checkers which separate words. Microsoft Activesync is listed wrong so everyone corrects it to Active Sync. So when it has a problem and you go search for forums, you have to search both with and without a space and if you don't know to do two searches you may miss the answer to the current problem.

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#179252 - 08/14/09 03:50 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Eugene]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
My pet peeve is people using the word less when they should be using the word fewer.

Mostly this is a problem when people are speaking. Online I take it as given that spelling, often just mistyping, slightly off sentence structures and loose grammar are to be overlooked. It is part of giving the poster the benefit of the doubt. Of recognizing a common intention to engage in quick and easy communication, and focusing on the message being transmitted instead of the mechanics of how it is delivered.

When someone points out such errors online I immediately assume the person is either a prig taking a cheap shot to demean someone or someone who is being incredibly naive in their assumption such correction will be well received and helpful.

Professional communicators should know things like the less/fewer thing as part of their professional skill set and in their case sloppy grammar hints at sloppy professional standards. Working class stiffs get judged much less harshly.

That said the ability to speak and write clearly is a valuable skill. Sloppy speaking habits, like excessive insertion of 'um' and 'you know', rising valley girl inflection that makes every statement sound like a question, and mumbling can rob a person of their ability to focus and organize people in a crisis. Good, even if a somewhat less than perfect, grammar and clear, direct delivery gives a person an air of authority, and an edge in taking charge.

Something simple, like a shirt with a collar, can have people assuming your in charge. A hardhat and clipboard are so effective in conferring authority that they might be considered a disguise if your not actually endued with authority.

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#179264 - 08/14/09 07:57 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Erik_B]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Erik_B
... Adams-esque walls of text ...


Do you mean in the style of Douglas Adams? As a software engineer I noticed that most of my colleagues understand and speak it well. For non-software people it is like talking in an unknown foreign language.
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#179265 - 08/14/09 08:15 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Art_in_FL]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL
...
Of recognizing a common intention to engage in quick and easy communication, and focusing on the message being transmitted instead of the mechanics of how it is delivered.

When someone points out such errors online I immediately assume the person is either a prig taking a cheap shot to demean someone or someone who is being incredibly naive in their assumption such correction will be well received and helpful.

Professional communicators should know things like the less/fewer thing as part of their professional skill set and in their case sloppy grammar hints at sloppy professional standards. Working class stiffs get judged much less harshly.

...

Sometimes precision matters and sloppy grammar can change the meaning.
Sometimes people point out errors that a person makes consistently. That is intended to be helpful. As a rule of thumb the advice is less welcome if it is really needed.
Depending on the topic of the forum everyone may be judged harshly. A couple of weeks ago I found a thread where a moderator gave a hint to a person with poor writing. He pointed out that it did matter:

  • when you do not bother to try proper writing why should we bother to figure out?
  • If we try to figure out, we might be wrong and give bad advice.
  • High voltage experiments require following the rules carefully. We do not trust people with your writing to be aware of it.

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#179364 - 08/14/09 08:37 PM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Art_in_FL]
Erik_B Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 315
Loc: Somewhere in my own little wor...
Originally Posted By: Art_in_FL


Something simple, like a shirt with a collar, can have people assuming your in charge.


you're






















grin
_________________________
Originally Posted By: scafool
Camping teaches us what things we can live without.


Originally Posted By: ironraven
...Shopping appeals to the soul of the hunter-gatherer.

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#179369 - 08/14/09 08:45 PM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Susan]
raptor Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 288
Loc: Europe
The posts about ending sentence with preposition reminded me this funny video smile - Downfall of Grammar.
By the way I am not against proper grammar at all.

It would be great to be able to edit the posts here for longer time than itīs now. Since English is not my native language I make some mistakes from time to time. (Sorry for that. I am trying to get better every day though.) But if I donīt spot my mistakes immediately I canīt correct them later because the editing of the post gets locked very soon.

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#179397 - 08/15/09 02:13 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: raptor]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Grammar, terminology and spelling are always in flux. One of our founding fathers said that 'anyone who cannot spell a word in more than one way was a fool'. Standardization of spelling and grammar, rigid rules and standards are a relatively recent concept. Most of it taking hold in the 1800s.

Many of the finest pieces of literature are full of grammatical errors. Are you going to say Joyce or Shakespeare weren't good writers because they failed to follow modern grammar and spellings?

Technical writing often deserves closer attention but specialists within a field often don't use normal language. Instead they use slang, acronyms, and words-of-art. Most of which are not found in any dictionary.

English is particularly adept at adapting and absorbing anything useful.

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#179399 - 08/15/09 02:32 AM Re: Grammar Groan [Re: Art_in_FL]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Try reading Chaucer. His treatise on the astrolabe is a real treat and can be found on Internet Archive in their texts section.
Almost impossible to read but it sounds almost normal as you read it out loud.
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