Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#179434 - 08/15/09 01:25 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: NightHiker]
sodak Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Some people just don't get the NSEW thing, I've been working for 19 years to get my wife to be aware of which direction she's facing, she's just not wired that way.

This is more true than most people realize. I could get lost in a telephone booth. So I over-prepare with maps, compass, and gps. I constantly try to update myself as to my orientation and position. I'm still frequently wrong.

My wife and her father are homing pidgeons. They are the only members of their family like this. You could blindfold them, knock them out, take them to a strange city at night, and they can tell you where north is. Many times in the woods, my wife and I have different ideas as to which way to go, but I always listen to her. She's never been wrong yet.

I have no explanation for this, either.

I agree with other posters, when other people depend on you, especially kids, it drastically changes how you plan and approach things like this.

Top
#179435 - 08/15/09 01:43 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: sodak]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5170
Loc: SOCAL
I have a fair ability to keep directions straight, but I also have enough time navigating to not trust that instinct with my life. A compass, map and GPS trump instinct any day.

Top
#179446 - 08/15/09 03:42 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: sodak]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: sodak
Originally Posted By: NightHiker
Some people just don't get the NSEW thing, I've been working for 19 years to get my wife to be aware of which direction she's facing, she's just not wired that way.

This is more true than most people realize. I could get lost in a telephone booth. So I over-prepare with maps, compass, and gps. I constantly try to update myself as to my orientation and position. I'm still frequently wrong.

My wife and her father are homing pidgeons. They are the only members of their family like this. You could blindfold them, knock them out, take them to a strange city at night, and they can tell you where north is. Many times in the woods, my wife and I have different ideas as to which way to go, but I always listen to her. She's never been wrong yet.

I have no explanation for this, either.

I agree with other posters, when other people depend on you, especially kids, it drastically changes how you plan and approach things like this.


You're WAY ahead of a lot of people just in admitting that you aren't great at this. It took my wife YEARS to admit that she can't use a map. We once took a trip and (she SO wanted to navigate) I made each turn in the exact opposite direction that she directed. She was wrong every single time and we arrived on time. I've probably never laughed so hard. If she lays the whole trip out in advance she's OK but if she tries to start navigating on the fly without notice she's lost (literaly). lol
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

Top
#179448 - 08/15/09 04:33 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Brangdon]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Leaving directions where you AREN'T going is the same as not leaving directions at all. The state of California is approx. the size of Britain. She was 85 miles from Scotty's Castle.

She did send a text message about the flat tire, entirely omitting where she was at the time, a useless message except to indicate she was still alive.

If she had had a map, left her vehicle the same evening and started walking straight west, they probably would have been found the next day.

If people don't know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, they shouldn't be allowed near a wilderness area with children or pets.

Top
#179451 - 08/15/09 05:29 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Susan]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Originally Posted By: Susan
...snip

If people don't know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, they shouldn't be allowed near a wilderness area with children or pets.


...or be allowed dress themselves, drive, VOTE or procreate. grin





It's only humor folks.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

Top
#179453 - 08/15/09 06:17 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: sodak]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
Originally Posted By: sodak
[quote=NightHiker]
My wife and her father are homing pidgeons. They are the only members of their family like this. You could blindfold them, knock them out, take them to a strange city at night, and they can tell you where north is. Many times in the woods, my wife and I have different ideas as to which way to go, but I always listen to her. She's never been wrong yet.

I'm actually pretty good at this too. Not so much since I've moved to VA, but darn near the rest of my life. I joke there's too much metal in the surrounding shipyards and it messes up my internal compass. Who knows? All I know is in my car kit and BOB is essentially just a button compass. I don't have a good map of the area yet, but I trust myself and that little back-up to get me moving should something happen.

Even if you're not "gifted" with a sense of direction, you can do most of it based on environmental clues. Just knowing where the sun rises adn sets gets you pretty good bearings. Watching dominant weather patterns helps too - ie, knowing that storms usually move in from X direction. Night is easy too, if you can find the north start. Other constellations help a bit, if you use the same time each night (since they rotate during the night, as well as daily movements) and get the gist of their seasonal variations.

Top
#179456 - 08/15/09 06:41 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Susan]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
If people don't know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, they shouldn't be allowed near a wilderness area with children or pets.


The Sun doesn't rise in the east and sets in the west where I live... whistle 3 weeks ago the sun rose in the North East and set in the North West.


Top
#179463 - 08/15/09 08:59 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Sagebrush_Naturalist Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 4
I was working with 5 other people in the back county of Death Valley the same week this tragedy occurred and we never heard about it until we got back to Stovepipe Wells the day after they found the woman. I feel awful that we were only about 15 miles at one point from where she got stuck on the first day of her ordeal! It was blistering hot there - the daily temperatures were over 120 degrees that week.

For safety's sake, we told everyone where we would be during the day, and took the precaution of traveling with at least two vehicles each day to our worksites (one as a life boat just in case). We also brought 5+ gallons of water per person per day (extra to splash around to cool off with), a bunch of towels and a large cooler filled with nothing but ice (to cool off with). If someone did get too hot, we would have used the towels, water and ice to cool them off with. The drinking water was kept cool but not iced or too cold (you can kill yourself drinking ice water when you are hot).

There is NO cell phone coverage in Death Valley - we had more than 6 cell phones between all of us with more than three different carriers and none of them could send calls. So for backup, I brought my 2-meter portable ham radio (which never raised anyone when I tried to make hello calls with it). Our main emergency communications was covered by three SPOT emergency satellite transponders, which we used for daily safety check-in calls too.

Unfortunately, there were a lot of mistakes that woman made which led to the death of her son. Even though some had suggested that she should have walked out to get help, this would have been certain death. The nights do not cool off that much down there - it was still over 100 degrees at 11PM! The area where she was in is very remote, and to try to see a human walking out there would have been next to impossible. Another woman died the week before in the park trying to walk back to her car from the dunes near Stovepipe Wells. Walking anywhere during the summer down there is very dangerous and should not be attempted unless you have water cached along your route.

The most basic things she could have done to have survived this would have been to take at least 5 gallons of water for each of them (10 gallons), a real map, and communicate with people as to where she was going to be with a check-in call planned. The park visitor centers will do this for you if you want - just let them know who, when and where and they will send help if you don't check in. Oh yea - Don't forget to check in if you are done with your trip too, because you will get a call from a ranger and they won't be happy if they find you safely at home!!

Top
#179464 - 08/15/09 09:33 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Sagebrush_Naturalist]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2751
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Welcome aboard, Sagebrush_.

Good post. There is no substitute for on-the-ground knowledge.

Seems this unfortunate soul got in very deep, very fast. Sobering to say the least.

On balance, I think I'd much rather hunker down in a howling prairie blizzard than try my luck in a desert that extreme.

Top
#179486 - 08/16/09 12:26 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: Susan]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Susan
Leaving directions where you AREN'T going is the same as not leaving directions at all.
I figure she left directions for where she intended going and then got lost. She certainly made a lot of mistakes, but at least some things she tried to get right.

Quote:
She did send a text message about the flat tire, entirely omitting where she was at the time, a useless message except to indicate she was still alive.
She changed the tyre herself. She dealt with it, and wasn't asking for rescue at that point. The message wasn't useless; it contributed to her friend's concern, and also helped the people tracking her when they found the tyre.

Quote:
If she had had a map, left her vehicle the same evening and started walking straight west, they probably would have been found the next day.
I'm going to follow Sagebrush's view on this.

The child died, but the adult and the dog survived, and that's partly because of the things she got right. I think it's dangerous to polarise the issue. We all make mistakes. Dismissing her as completely stupid contributes to the belief that disasters only happen to other people (ie, stupid people).

Also, I suspect there was more to it we don't know. For example, it sounds like the car GPS was less useful than she expected. I would be very interested to hear her version of events.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

Top
Page 7 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
September
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 217 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
BereniceStanaway, aakanksha, 9Line, SkiSoloII, KMNPack
5293 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Has any of you really buried a survival cache ??
by chaosmagnet
01:36 AM
Castaway
by Russ
01:36 PM
Santa Cruz Island Boat Fire
by Pete
09/15/19 10:47 PM
Wordless tutorial III - single strand diamond knot
by TonyE
09/14/19 07:12 PM
Suggest me a fixed blade and a folder
by hikermor
09/14/19 05:58 PM
Solving a math equation
by M_a_x
09/14/19 06:47 AM
Easy way to start a fire
by Chisel
09/14/19 03:34 AM
AG13 Batteries
by Jeanette_Isabelle
09/13/19 06:23 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.