Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
#178878 - 08/08/09 10:39 AM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp Trip [Re: 2005RedTJ]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
Wow. Very sad story but you guys already hit the nail on the head. There was no plan B; if plan A (NOTHING goes wrong) failed then there were likely to be dire consequenses.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

Top
#178884 - 08/08/09 06:59 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: Dagny]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Our local paper said they went on Saturday for an overnight camping trip, so I'll assume she thought they had enough food and water for however many hours they were supposed to be out.

I'm sorry to say she made many mistakes, as has been pointed out in this thread. If I recall, they'd recently moved to Las Vegas from the east coast, so she didn't know what she was getting into. I'd guess she not only didn't know, she didn't know she didn't know, the problem of unknown unknowns.

What a disaster.

Top
#178885 - 08/08/09 08:29 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: philip]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Orange Beach, AL
I agree to a point but should a half way reasonable person raise an eyebrow when planning a backcountry outing someplace called "Death Valley".

In addition to the common sense factor; the NPS is pretty good (where I've travelled anyway) at doing everything short of smacking folks in the head with a 2x4 to try and get them to take care of themselves.
_________________________
"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

Top
#178886 - 08/08/09 08:52 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: 7point82]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
No kidding. First paragraph from the NPS website.

Quote:

Death Valley is famous as the hottest and driest place in North America. Summer temperatures often top 120°F (49°C) in the shade with overnight lows dipping into the 90s°F (mid 30s°C.) Average rainfall is less than 2 inches (5cm), a fraction of what most deserts recieve.

Top
#178897 - 08/09/09 10:48 AM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: LED]
sushi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 23
Hopefully it's temporary because of the companies financial troubles hitting quality control. But jeep comes bottom of the owners reliability surveys in the UK.
Note this is what the owners themselves say about how reliable their jeeps are. Not what makers, or owners of other vehicles say; (which is what people claim if their vehicle comes low).
For some reasons cars are like guns. People take criticism of theirs personally, (they are just pieces of metal chaps). So no offense is intended! And no; I'm not replying to anyone saying 'well my jeep has never gone wrong but the honda next door is.....'
Sushi

Top
#178913 - 08/09/09 04:50 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: sushi]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: sushi
Hopefully it's temporary because of the companies financial troubles hitting quality control. But jeep comes bottom of the owners reliability surveys in the UK.
Note this is what the owners themselves say about how reliable their jeeps are. Not what makers, or owners of other vehicles say; (which is what people claim if their vehicle comes low).
For some reasons cars are like guns. People take criticism of theirs personally, (they are just pieces of metal chaps). So no offense is intended! And no; I'm not replying to anyone saying 'well my jeep has never gone wrong but the honda next door is.....'
Sushi


That's actually kind of funny to me, as stateside Land Rover is usually at the bottom of our owner reliability surveys.

With that in mind, Jeep isn't much further ahead, neither is Hummer. Makes me wonder why companies have so much trouble making good small 4x4's? Even Toyota has problems with the FJ Cruiser

Anyway, our older Jeeps with the 4.0L inline-6 and spartan interior options tend to be very reliable. The older V8 models and all the newer models are somewhat questionable, especially once you start loading them with options. For some reason Jeep's biggest issue has always been electrical stuff. The hardware they use is usually pretty solid stuff (Dana axles, Borg Warner/Tremec transmissions, ect), but once they had to start computerizing stuff....forget it.

Top
#178916 - 08/09/09 05:52 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: Paul810]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Paul, i agree with your assessment on the Jeeps.
_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

Top
#178917 - 08/09/09 05:55 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: Paul810]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
Apparently she drove the Jeep Cherokee off the dirt road and over an animal den which collapsed, burying the Jeep up to the axle. Maybe there's newer info on that? The media seems a bit slow in this case to catch up to the full truth.

We don't know enough to tell whether a more capable driver could have extricated the Jeep from that situation. Or whether a more capable vehicle could have gotten out of that hole.

Point is, I haven't seen any reason to disparage Jeep in this instance.

If there's some indication that the vehicle was culpable, then by all means let's see it.

By the way, I happily drive a reliable, but much less off-road capable Honda Element. It's a pity Jeep has relatively poor reliability ratings because I would be very interested in a new Wrangler one day.

Looks like this woman was not prepared to be out there with the child and dog, no matter the vehicle she was driving.

Las Vegas Journal
http://www.lvrj.com/news/52756377.html

She ended up taking the Owl Hole Spring Road, a gravel road in the far south of the park that goes from the valley into the Owlshead Mountains. The trail, which requires four-wheel drive, dips briefly into the China Lake Naval Weapons Center before leading to a communications tower.

Shortly after turning onto the trail, the Jeep had a flat tire. Sanchez changed it and left the flattened tire on the side of the road, with a water bottle next to it.

She continued, navigating the 30-mile road nearly until it ends, Baldino said. But where the trail makes a sharp right, she went left down a trail that's not marked on the park's maps.

Why she did it, officials don't know, Baldino said.

On the trail the Jeep fell into a collapsed animal burrow and became stuck, Baldino said.






Edited by Dagny (08/09/09 06:01 PM)

Top
#178920 - 08/09/09 07:58 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: philip]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: philip

I'm sorry to say she made many mistakes, as has been pointed out in this thread. If I recall, they'd recently moved to Las Vegas from the east coast, so she didn't know what she was getting into. I'd guess she not only didn't know, she didn't know she didn't know, the problem of unknown unknowns.

What a disaster.


recently moved or not, it's called DEATH valley for a reason. I mean, they can't make it any more clear.

I imagine her self-critique is way harsher than anything we could add.

Top
#178921 - 08/09/09 09:03 PM Re: Death in Death Valley - Jeep Stranded on Camp [Re: 7point82]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> In addition to the common sense factor

My mantra is, there's no such thing as common sense. I've yet to be convinced I'm wrong in that opinion. :-\

Top
Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
March
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 295 Guests and 21 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
GallenR, Jeebo, NicholasMarshall, Yadav, BenFoakes
5367 Registered Users
Newest Posts
What did you do today to prepare?
by dougwalkabout
Yesterday at 11:21 PM
Zippo Butane Inserts
by dougwalkabout
Yesterday at 11:11 PM
Question about a "Backyard Mutitool"
by Ren
03/17/24 01:00 AM
Problem in my WhatsApp configuration
by Chisel
03/09/24 01:55 PM
New Madrid Seismic Zone
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/04/24 02:44 PM
EDC Reduction
by EchoingLaugh
03/02/24 04:12 PM
Using a Compass Without a Map
by KenK
02/28/24 12:22 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.