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#177603 - 07/25/09 02:41 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: MoBOB]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Scissors, but not the tiny ones, if it's the only other tool make it almost the size of the blade.
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#177608 - 07/25/09 02:58 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Todd W]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2198
Originally Posted By: Todd W
Scissors, but not the tiny ones, if it's the only other tool make it almost the size of the blade.


In all SAKs the scissors are as long as the primary tools.

Scissors are as big as they are, smaller the knife, smaller the scissors, larger = larger.
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#177611 - 07/25/09 03:18 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Doug_Ritter]
rebwa Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 295
From a person who actually uses scissors on almost a daily basis, opening those pesky little stings on feed sacks etc, my favorite tools that I happen to have with scissors, are the micra and the juice pro, but the juice pro doesn't have locking blades which is an issue for me. I have a blast but it's just easier to go find a pair of real scissors than get those out of the tool. The only SAK with scissors that I've used is the executive and those are hard to use with any kind of glove on and just a little too small for my needs.

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#177614 - 07/25/09 03:29 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Originally Posted By: Doug_Ritter
Originally Posted By: Todd W
Scissors, but not the tiny ones, if it's the only other tool make it almost the size of the blade.


In all SAKs the scissors are as long as the primary tools.

Scissors are as big as they are, smaller the knife, smaller the scissors, larger = larger.


Gotcha!

I only have the original series SAK w/scissors my other SAK don't have the scissors.

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#177644 - 07/25/09 08:14 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Doug_Ritter]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
I hope this helps.
When tools get too reduced in size they tend to become ineffective and turn into trinkets instead of tools.

I carry a basic knife and a credit card size diamond card as a sharpener. If I want a file I can put a small points file or one of the flat chainsaw files in my bag.
(The flat files for chain saws are meant for filing the rakers of the chain. They are usually 6 inch mill bastard files with safe edges. The files I get have a rounded safe end for you to hold instead of a handle tang, but they can be hard to find sometimes, some stores only stock the files with pointy tines for sticking handles on.)
For small emergency hacksaws I like the little 6 inch wire frame ones or the ones that go into a pistol like handle.

For scissors I have a nice pair of folding scissors (stainless steel) that were made in Japan. They are a bit bigger than the SAK version but much more effective.

By the way, the best full size general purpose scissors I have found are the ones made by Olfa. They are very sharp and stay sharp a long time.
Crash scissors are good too, if they are strong enough to work as light metal shears. The only problem with crash scissors is the lug to prevent you cutting the patient sometimes gets in the way for general use.

One of the reasons I avoid having files in a knife is the reduced effectiveness of too small tools, but another reason is files go dull and can not be sharpened. Diamond files like in my leatherman stand up better but they lack the aggressiveness or the smooth cutting nature of a metal file.


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#177688 - 07/26/09 03:28 AM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: scafool]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
File vs. Scissors?

I would take the file without a doubt.

With a file and a knife I could accomplish the vast majority of tasks I would use scissors for. However, with only a knife and scissors I would have a tough time accomplishing tasks where a file or metal cutting/shaping tools would normally be required.

Basically, the file means I have a better chance of being able to improvise a solution to a specific problem with the multitool. Which, is pretty much the whole idea behind a multitool; it's a compromise of many tools that allows you to possibly improvise a fix. The greater tool variety, the better chance you'll find something you can use.

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#177693 - 07/26/09 06:38 AM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
If you have to field sharpen something like a machete, improvise lures etc then you want a file. If, like myself, you consider the ability to cut fishing line and fletch arrows if it goes long term (I define long term as beyond 3 days) then you want sissors.



Purely as a point: Carrying just a SAK is probably not a good idea. A decent multi-tool should also be carried.


Edited by Leigh_Ratcliffe (07/26/09 06:39 AM)
Edit Reason: removed a ( that should not have been there.
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#177694 - 07/26/09 07:04 AM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: rebwa]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: rebwa
First post, however I've lurked and learned here for years. To answer Doug's question.... scissors. But my dislike of all the SAK that I've seen is the liner lock. I'm a female and do activities around horses, trail riding etc. and if I had to use a knife in an emergency situation I wouldn't want to be fiddling around trying to close the liner mechinism, with gloves on and maybe holding onto a horse. I actually have the trekker version and keep it in my SUV and don't carry it for that reason. I've really never figured a way aroung carrying both a good lockback and a leatherman.


I presume that is because the Trekker's liner lock is push up rather than down?
With most liner locks you hold the knife in your right hand with the edge of the blade pointing towards your left. You push down on the liner with your thumb, and press with your forefinger against the spine of the blade to unlock it. To close a Trekker one handed you have to roll the knife 45 degrees (1/4 turn) clockwise so that the edge of the blade is vertical, facing upwards. Press the linerlock to unlock and exert pressure on the blade. Easy way to do that is to place the spine of the blade against your leg. Pressure must be gentle or you may close it on your fingers.

Also: Given the hazards inherent in horse riding, one would suggest that you would be better off with either a fixed blade (if legal) or a Benchmade Axis lock. Either a RSK Mk1 or a Griptillian.
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#177700 - 07/26/09 11:50 AM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: rebwa]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
*waves* Hello new lady!

The trouble with the Vic liner lock is that it was designed by a lefty, I think. They wanted one that still took both hands to close, because... they did. So their liner is backwards from every other liner lock in the world. And using a SAK with gloves is a pain.

Doug, I'd go with the scissors. The ones that Vic uses are basically long, sharp manicure scissors, so they have a lot of versatility, very "maneuverable". What they don't have is leverage and brute force- I'd back up any SAK or multi with a pair of EMT sheers and/or (if a SAK) a pair of pliers with wire cutter.

If I feel the need for a file and I'm carrying a SAK, I'd rather have dedicated one as the metal filings are a pain to get out of a SAK. Easy to get out of a multitool because you can open it up without the spacers between the blades. You can get a decent one for like three, four bucks, Sears calls it something like an ignition file.
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#177706 - 07/26/09 01:57 PM Re: Best Swiss Army Knife for... [Re: Paul810]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Paul810
With a file and a knife I could accomplish the vast majority of tasks I would use scissors for. However, with only a knife and scissors I would have a tough time accomplishing tasks where a file or metal cutting/shaping tools would normally be required.
Although I agree with this, in practice I'd expect to use scissors a lot more often. Which I'd prefer in a tool depends on whether I am focussing on every day use, or on emergency use.

It does partly depend on what else I've got. I carry a tiny Vic Rambler which has tiny scissors, and also an LM Juice which has more meaty scissors. I find the Rambler scissors much better for working with my fingernails than the larger Juice ones, and as I have longish nails that's crucial for me. Also, they are about as good for cutting plastic or paper. For a lot of domestic jobs, just about anything sharp will do in my experience.

The Juice scissors are much better at bigger jobs, such as cutting someone's shoe off or clothing off, as might be needed for first aid or rescue. I'd much rather use scissors for that than a knife (especially if the knife wasn't designed for the job and was pointy). However, as you say, a knife would do in a pinch and I probably wouldn't cut up my patient too badly by accident, so for that role the file would cover more bases.

I live and work in an urban environment, so a file that can cut metal is more important to me than a wood saw. It's especially valuable long-term if it can be used to sharpen another blade. So I guess my ideal 3-tool SAK would be blade, scissors, file; no saw.
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