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#176664 - 07/17/09 12:30 AM Re: Urban EDC [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
KG2V Offline

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Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Hydrants probably can't be opened with a slip joint, and det cord won't do it - the valve is oh, 4-6 ft under the ground, and it's NOT easy to turn.

I have a heavy duty hydrant wrench in my truck - the problem is that NYC is started using tamper proof hydrant valves. From what I understand they use some sort of magnetic wrench
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#176671 - 07/17/09 01:24 AM Re: Urban EDC [Re: Blast]
celler Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/03
Posts: 410
Loc: Jupiter, FL
Originally Posted By: Blast
What is the smallest tool a person could EDC that would open a fire hydrant?

-Blast, who understands in some situations having everyone open hydrants would be a VERY bad idea.



I really would not want to deal with the pressure on a hydrant unless absolutely necessary and, as has been stated, shutting it off again is going to be a real pain without the proper spanner.

Instead, what about carrying one of those hex key-type tools that opens a security hose bib. You know, the kind that omits the round handle, but instead has a square fitting inside the fixture that requires a key to open. I suppose you could pick up one at a plumbing supply store. In the city where I work, there are one of those security hose bibs about every 100 feet. They are not obvious, but are there if you are looking for them.

Craig.

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#176686 - 07/17/09 12:20 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: KG2V]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Actually, I think a charge placed at/around the base like that would probably pop the hydrant body upward, stippping out the valve and creating a gyser. I don't think the cast iron pipe will take the stress and as the body goes ballistic, the guts get ripped out along with it.

Just cutting the body up higher with the det cord wouldn't likely open the valve, unless the blast pulled on the stem hard enough to strip the valve out as with a base blast.

Blast would probably know better what kinda charge it would take.
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#176696 - 07/17/09 03:06 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: benjammin]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Just cutting the body up higher with the det cord wouldn't likely open the valve, unless the blast pulled on the stem hard enough to strip the valve out as with a base blast.

Blast would probably know better what kinda charge it would take.


Well, the flange bolts at the bottom of the hydrant are designed to easily break away if the hydrant is hit hard, like with a car, a snowplow, or a forklift carrying a pallet of Valvetta cheese...

-Blast, who will say no more.
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#176702 - 07/17/09 03:51 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: Blast]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
The stem has a shear coupling right at/slightly below ground level, and the body itself has a shear flange, as Blast said...

They are designed to break away when hit with a car, and be easy to put back together
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#176710 - 07/17/09 04:35 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: celler]
acropolis5 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/18/06
Posts: 358
Cellar, I think you're referencing a 4-way Silcock Key or Wrench, which are available from various hardware suppliers on the internet. Kudos to Ironraven for first introducing the idea to the EDC Forums. I'm now thinking of investing in a couple of those small hydrant wrenches mentioned above.

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#176726 - 07/17/09 08:50 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: acropolis5]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
Coincidentally, a friend I hiked with last weekend recommended this book below. An absolutely gripping read, no matter how much you think you know about what happened that day.

High heels piling up in the corners of stairwells as people evacuated. Several men desperately trying to get out of an elevator stuck between floors by clawing through drywall -- none of them had a knife. Others in stuck elevators turning on laptops for light. Survivors desperate for water to quench thirst and reduce smoke inhalation during evacuation. Peoples' physical fitness and split-second decisions having enormous consequences for themselves and others. Stay or go? Up or down? Go back for the purse/briefcase? Mass lack of situational awareness due to lack of communication.

Highly relevant to this entire section of the forum.

"102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers"

http://www.amazon.com/102-Minutes-Untold...5220&sr=1-1

Amazon.com Review
In 102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers, New York Times writers Jim Dwyer and Kevin Flynn vividly recreate the 102-minute span between the moment Flight 11 hit the first Twin Tower on the morning of September 11, 2001, and the moment the second tower collapsed, all from the perspective of those inside the buildings--the 12,000 who escaped, and the 2,749 who did not. It's becoming easier, years later, to forget the profound, visceral responses the Trade Center attacks evoked in the days and weeks following September 11. Using hundreds of interviews, countless transcripts of radio and phone communications, and exhaustive research, Dwyer and Flynn bring that flood of responses back--from heartbreak to bewilderment to fury. The randomness of death and survival is heartbreaking. One man, in the second tower, survived because he bolted from his desk the moment he heard the first plane hit; another, who stayed at his desk on the 97th floor, called his wife in his final moments to tell her to cancel a surprise trip he had planned. In many cases, the deaths of those who survived the initial attacks but were killed by the collapse of the towers were tragically avoidable. Building code exemptions, communication breakdowns between firefighters and police, and policies put in place by building management to keep everyone inside the towers in emergencies led, the authors argue, to the deaths of hundreds who might otherwise have survived. September 11 is by now both familiar and nearly mythological. Dwyer and Flynn's accomplishment is recounting that day's events in a style that is stirring, thorough, and refreshingly understated.

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#176730 - 07/17/09 09:23 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: Blast]
big_al Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 586
Loc: 20mi east of San Diego
There are two(2) types of Hydrants DRY (with the valve under ground level, sometimes several feet) and WET ( where the water is at surface level) WET hydrants are used where it don't freeze. DRY hydrants are used in colder locations where it freezes. A DRY Hydrant will have the opening valve stem on the top of the hyd.
WET hyd. will have a valve at each location along the side of the hyd. And plumbers plyers will open both types if the Hyd. have been maintained.(I speak from 30+ years in the fire service.)
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#176732 - 07/17/09 09:54 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: Dagny]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Actually, if you look at the casualty figures - the life and death decisions of "get my bag or not" where really ONLY in the south Tower ( the second hit) - The "Interesting" part was - if you were below the point of impact, for all intents, you lived (except for folks who stayed, and a few people who could NOT be evacuated - wheelchairs and the like - plus rescue people). If you were ABOVE the point of impact - you died (I think there were what, 4 people who made it out via the damaged stairwell?)

It comes down to - the evacuation WORKED - the lessons of 1993 WERE learned

Like just about any person who lived in NYC that day, I knew someone who didn't make it out - and someone who did. The guy who made it our worked in the North tower - 82th floor I think - basically the jet came in through his office window. The good news was he was on the 4x? floor, at a cafeteria getting a cup of coffee. As he says "my coffee habit saved my life"

I can remember a few things about that day
1)The BLUE sky
2)The phone call from a person in my company who called to complain the the NY AP newswire feed was down, and we should fix our bleeping software, didn't I know there was breaking news. I had to inform the young lady that the AP offices were IN the WTC. She went from screaming to a quiet "oh..."
3)Seeing some video tapes that were never aired - that I hope never to see again
4)Getting home that night, and my wife asking me "what's that smell" (we live about 12 air miles from Ground Zero) and having to explain
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#176737 - 07/17/09 11:37 PM Re: Urban EDC [Re: KG2V]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe

It comes down to - the evacuation WORKED - the lessons of 1993 WERE learned


My intent in recommending the book is that people in 2009 have much to learn from the individual evacuation experiences of those who were in the towers in '93 and/or '01. At the least, the book is a very good reminder of the evacuees' challenges -- not least of all the lack of information they had to work with.

The authors vividly portray the atmosphere in the stairwells, the relative calm that seemed to pervade (mostly), the double-file shoulder-to-shoulder cadence giving way to single-file when someone needed to pass up or down. How arduous it was for the healthiest and daunting for those with asthma, fallen arches or injuries sustained in the attacks. Some of the evacuees were elderly.

At the lower floors the stairwells backed up and people had to be patient which apparently most were, despite the chaos of incessant sirens and the terrible noises from the crumbling towers, etc.

Improvising pry bars and using chairs to transport those who weren't ambulatory.

The '93 evacuation certainly benefited the '01 evacuees, such as in the steps that were taken in the interim so that the stairwells would not be dark. Some individual companies got preparedness religion after '93. Some alumns of the '93 evac drew upon that experience to get out ASAP. But others remembered the '93 evac as so tedious and terrifying (darkness and smoke) they stayed in their offices -- too late in the case of the South Tower. And communications were still a major problem in '01.

I also found very interesting the authors discussion of strategies behind stairwell placement, vestibules, the 1968 revisions to the NYC fire code, whether certain government entities should have to comply with fire codes (the Port Authority which built and operated the Twin Towers was exempt from fire code compliance), dominant high-rise fire-fighting protocols.

Some cities (Los Angeles) are more amenable to rooftop rescues than others (New York).

People who work or live in high rises probably should know more about their construction and compliance with fire codes than they do. They might want to know if the roof doors are normally locked. They should have awareness that busting a window to get fresh air will draw the fire toward them.

It's a good read.



Edited by Dagny (07/17/09 11:56 PM)

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