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#175806 - 07/08/09 02:50 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Tyber]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1906
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Tyber

FYI, Honda element 2010 has 6.9 inches of ground clearance.


It has never occurred to me that I would need 4x4 prowess to get out of the city. We're going to be on pavement. The Element is fantastic in snow and I have tire chains were something to occur during winter (we rarely have substantial snow or ice).

My instincts are that fuel economy and capacity are more important. And the vehicle's mechanical reliability is equally important. Not going anywhere if the engine conks out.

That's why I'd trust my Honda more than a Land Rover.

The most versatile and reliable vehicles I own are mountain bikes and bike trailers. I should learn how to change a bike tire.

This discussion reminds me of a passage from a P.J. O'Rourke book in which he observes that the ultimate off-road vehicle is a rental car.

Any rental car.

cool






Edited by Dagny (07/08/09 03:02 PM)

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#175807 - 07/08/09 02:56 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Dagny]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4589
Loc: SOCAL
I thought the DC laws regarding handguns had shifted to allow DC residents to own one legally.

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#175808 - 07/08/09 02:57 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Stu]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1906
Loc: Washington, DC

We ride and walk the C&O frequently. Yes, that would be an excellent option for evacuating without a vehicle.

Helps that the C&O starts out in the least crime-ridden part of town, too.

I have a C&O map, will dig it out and keep it handy.


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#175809 - 07/08/09 02:59 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Russ]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1906
Loc: Washington, DC
Originally Posted By: Russ
I thought the DC laws regarding handguns had shifted to allow DC residents to own one legally.


I believe it's still being litigated. The city has done its best to ensure that legally doesn't equal easily. The devil is in the details.

The long arms stipulations are also quite restrictive.

I'm confident that there are still a lot more illegal guns here than legally registered.

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/frames.asp?doc=/mpdc/lib/mpdc/info/pdf/firearms_eligible_registration.pdf

http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1237,q,547431,mpdcNav_GID,1523,mpdcNav,|.asp







Edited by Dagny (07/08/09 03:31 PM)

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#175818 - 07/08/09 05:38 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Dagny]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2812
I've started riding a lot of the converted rail trials like your C&O in DC. Just starting out with a trailer, kids seat and two kids I can ride an easy 10mph, 15 if I push a little bit. So if I had to some of those are alternate routs.

Sure 4x4 doesn't help evacuating a city by road, where it helps is if you need to hop a curb or U turn in the highway berm, the police are not very nice to you if your stuck in the middle of the berm smile

Communications are another essential, scanner and/or CB, you want to hear where the accidents are stopped traffic is.
Good maps, GPS, etc. You want street maps, bike trail maps, etc so you can plan alternate routes.

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#175819 - 07/08/09 06:05 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: LED]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
> I may be wrong, but if things were that bad, you'd need a minimum of a
> 2-3 vehicle convoy (with armed people) to have a chance of getting where
> you need to go.

I may have missed it, but in all the mass evacuations we've had over the decades, when did anyone need an armed convoy to get anywhere?

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#175820 - 07/08/09 07:01 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: philip]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: philip
"I may be wrong, but if things were that bad, you'd need a minimum of a 2-3 vehicle convoy (with armed people) to have a chance of getting where you need to go."

I may have missed it, but in all the mass evacuations we've had over the decades, when did anyone need an armed convoy to get anywhere?


Um, never? There seems to be some conflation of real regional disasters, of which there have been plenty, and hypothetical apocalyptic events, of which there have been none, so far.

Nonetheless, the latter seems to occupy the thinking and planning of many preparedness-minded folks at least as much as the former. Moreover, there seem to be many popular misconceptions in circulation about what and how things will happen, especially with respect to government actions, in the type of disasters we do have some experience with, such as hurricanes, earthquakes and floods.

I have been to many or most of these regional disasters over the years, and I am pleased to report that neighbor-helping-neighbor seems to be the near-universal rule. Yes, some strange things did go down post-Katrina in NO, LA, but strange things are always going down there, hurricane or not.

In the event a truly nationwide or global apocalypse does occur, all bets are off, and Mad Max rules may well then go into effect. But short of that, we can usually expect most people to display the traditional American values of common decency, kindness, resourcefulness and concern for one another in times of adversity.

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#175823 - 07/08/09 07:33 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Dagny]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida

In addition to your "everyday carry" of a good tool kit and spare parts for your car, the following may be helpful in an evacuation, or post-disaster, especially if you are forced by unforeseen circumstances to take some bad or unimproved routes in a regular, non 4x4 off-road-ready car. You can do amazing things in a regular car, provided that you go slow, plan ahead and can accept significant damage or total loss and abandonment of the car:

- gas cans (very dangerous-emergency carry only)
- spare water/coolant
- full size spare, or two, mounted on rims (post disaster, there are lots of nails and other tire-shredding debris on the roads)
- Tow strap

For improvised off-roading:

- "Hi-Lift" jack (an amazing tool, for more than changing tires)
- Come-along with accessories and lots of chain or rope
- Shovel, axe, bow or chain saw, sledgehammer, hacksaw
- Carpet strips or other traction devices
- bolt and wire cutters (for gates and fences - only very extreme circumstances justify using these to access private property - try to minimize your damage. But public property like forestry roads may be gated or fenced off, too)
- The longest pry bar you can carry
- 2x4 and 4x4 wood pieces for cribbing
- Gazeteer or topographic maps

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#175824 - 07/08/09 07:39 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: Jeff_M]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2800
Loc: La-USA
My experience AND upbringing is to leave no one behind.

The elderly couple across the street have a lifetime's wisdom & experience in their heads. Their thinking and recommendations are likely to help avoid a disaster while evacuating from a disaster.

The young diver next door has resources and skills to contribute.

I can go on & on. The bottom line is that, I feel, everyone has valuable contributions to add to the group's survival, if bugging out of a neighborhood became necessary.

Yes, I would assist the carless. Extra drivers would also be needed as well as extra guards, worker bees, etc.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#175825 - 07/08/09 07:50 PM Re: Evacuation - neighbors without cars [Re: comms]
JBMat Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 745
Loc: NC
I would be more inclined to give someone a ride if and only if they could contribute to the group's safety and well being.

No, I am not giving a ride to Sam and Suzy and the 3 kids (first off, my truck won't hold em) who expect "the government to provide" for them. Luckily, I am in an area where not too many people think that way.

I am throwing the gotta haves in first, to include self protection items, then the pets, then the should haves, then the nice to haves. After that, I see what I can do for others.

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