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#174947 - 06/17/09 11:12 AM What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag?
DavidEnoch Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Texas
I found a site that sells a "survival sleeping bag" made out of the mylar foil type material that the survival blankets are made from. It looks like a big step up from the survival blanket in that you don't have to try to hold it closed around you. You can poke a hole in the closed end if you need more ventilation.

Here is a site that sells them for $20 for ten bags.
http://www.mcrmedical.com/category/space-blankets.html?gclid=CJ3ko-KikZsCFQq3sgodCR7koA

David Enoch

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#174961 - 06/17/09 02:53 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: DavidEnoch]
Colourful Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 87
Loc: Yukon
Makes a great stocking stuffer but I prefer the Adventure Medical Thermo-Lite Bivvy 2. Much tougher.
http://gearjunkie.com/gear-review-adventure-medical-kits-bivy-sacks

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#174962 - 06/17/09 02:56 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: DavidEnoch]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Our local CERT organization was considering a bulk buy of these, to hand out in the event of the Big Shake that takes out most shelters. We trialed it at an annual drill, and decided against. Not to be crass, but we thought the mylar blankets would end up best used as temporary body wraps, for corpses, which is what alot of disaster survivors might end up if this was their only shelter for a 40 degree night with rain. For personal protection, for a few dollars more you get a reusable AMK bivvy or heetsheet, which doesn't rip or crinkle nearly as much. For a mass casualty situation, I would recommend an up front investment in group shelters of almost any type besides these mylar sleeping bags, which will rip and be fairly useless even after the first night.

Your mileage may vary in Texas of course - we tend to have colder and wet weather even in summertime in the Pacific Northwest, so we can't really afford to trust to mylar, not with other options available. I will be elated if after the Seattle Fault rips the biggest complaint from survivors is their tent shelter was too warm.


Edited by Lono (06/17/09 02:57 PM)

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#174982 - 06/17/09 06:55 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: NightHiker]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
FWIW I responded mostly with a group or bulk buy in mind, since DavidEnoch mentioned a 10 for $20 purchase option. As I think Mr. Ritter's current advise still recommends, or did last I read it, the mylar blanket is better than nothing, and might be serviceable for a solo or small group survival situation, though mostly in non-blanket / non-personal applications - like building a shelter from rain and snow. But even that requires alot of care with mylar, it will rip pretty easily. I carried a 99 cent space blanket in my bag for backpacking bivouacs for probably 25 years, before AMK began to refine the design and introduced better versions and materials. I never had to use the space blanket though, but I have used the AMKY bivvy in a real night outdoors (backyard) and it held up as advertised. (I still will at times carry a Tacoma Mountain Rescue tent in my bag, which is structurally not much more than a large orange plastic bag to sleep in, if I'm not already carrying another shelter option - its better than nothing). In terms of personal comfort in the great outdoors, $12 for the AMK bivvy is a no brainer versus $1-2 for the mylar blanket. I would have a hard time outfitting a hundred cold shivering people with 100 AMK bivvys after an earthquake though, so if I hadn't done my job and cached some survival tents, if there was a box of space blankets split open in the road, I wouldn't turn them down. Better than nothing, its just a question of how much better.

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#174984 - 06/17/09 07:37 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: Lono]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
But even that requires alot of care with mylar, it will rip pretty easily.


FYI-

You may remember we did a Girl Scout survival competition recently in which each of 13 groups needed to construct a shelter utilizing a standard mylar survival blanket. Some of the groups where girls had taken my workshop, knew to reinforce the areas where they were attaching guy lines with duct tape, but even those who didn’t, not one blanket ripped, despite some rough handling and a moderately strong wind.

Pete

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#174988 - 06/17/09 08:12 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: paramedicpete]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
I've actually used a mylar blanket one night at the high base camp in Mt Whitney, about 10K feet up. It held up find, and kept me warm enough at about 40 degrees (and dry). My Boy Scout troop was doing a fast ascent, and stopped for about 3 hours for a quick nap at the base camp. Once out of the wind (lots of stone walls set up over the years), the blankets worked great. Or course, noisy as heck, kind of hard to unwrap (they're REALLY well folded) and re-wrap. I didn't have any problems with mine tearing that night.

Now, this past winter, I tried to make a snow shelter with one in my backyard. It DID tear, but duct tape patched the hole, and yes, you do have to reinforce where you attach them.

FWIW, at that price, I say go for it. Even if they crap out on you, you have 10 nights worth of bags.

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#175011 - 06/18/09 02:12 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: MDinana]
DavidEnoch Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Texas
It seems that most people carry a space blanket in their kit. It is hard to keep a space blanket wrapped around you and it's not large enough to cover your whole body. If you want to use a space blanket as water proof shelter material or a reflector, the sleeping bag gives you more material to work with for very little more weight or space. I think that the mylar sleeping bag would be more functional than a space blanket.

I would like to get a Adventure Medical Thermo-Lite Bivvy 2. I know that is a large step up in quality over a mylar sleeping bag.

David Enoch

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#175014 - 06/18/09 02:55 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: Lono]
WolfBrother Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Austin, Tx
WB Edited to Specific:
Originally Posted By: Lono
We trialed it at an annual drill, and decided against. Not to be crass, but we thought the mylar blankets would end up best used as temporary body wraps, for corpses, which is what alot of disaster survivors might end up if this was their only shelter for a 40 degree night with rain.


If you would, specifically what happened?

What worked?

What didn't work?

With cold/rain was there a problem with conductive heat loss?

Thanks,
WolfBrother
_________________________
WolfBrother
This article is reproduced IAW Sec 107 of title 17 US Copyright Law relating to fair-use & is for the purposes of criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, & research.



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#175015 - 06/18/09 03:22 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: DavidEnoch]
MostlyHarmless Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 982
Loc: Norway
I'm also curious and interested in the AMK bivy bag, particular if it will stand up to continuous use.

It's about half the weight and slightly less packed volume of what I'm currently using, which is a combined poncho, tarp and bivy bag from the Norwegian company Jerven. Jerven products page
I'm using the original. 600 grams, roughly 21 ounces. A square 140 by 280 cm (4.5 by 9 feet) that is folded in half and closed by zippers along the sides. Use it as a small tarp, or zip it up, lie along the diagonal and use it as a bivy bag. Or use it as a poncho.


I find the philosophy of bringing one of these ponchos/bivy bags differs quite a bit from the emergency blanket or bivy bag. The Jerven products are not single use, emergency items, they are designed for continuous, rough use. I use mine almost every time I'm outdoors. Often its duty is merely being rigged as a wind block for eating our sandwiches, or as a ground cloth to augment our sitting pads. In more rough conditions we will use it as a shelter. I like this a lot better than the idea of an expendable, single use, extremely fragile space blanket... Of course, one does not exclude the other, and I am not opposed to throwing in a space blanket or two in a PSK or a pocket, as a backup.


BUT - I personally would advocate the philosophy that the items I bring with me should not only save my butt in emergencies, they should also make life more comfortable in less dire circumstances. That way I'm not only more comfortable outdoors, I also know I have the skill and knowledge of how to best use what I'm carrying. I then build confidence that I know how to use a piece of equipment that actually works... the value of that particular confidence in my skills and in my gear should not be underestimated ... The downside of that philosophy is that the gear must stand up to everyday use and abuse, and that robustness comes with a weight penalty. I can live with a weight penalty of 600 grams.


Unfortunately, due to the high costs of labor in Norway these items will be quite pricey for most international customers. My bag (the original) cost 1045 NOK, about $170 with todays exchange rates. A shame really, because the products are really good, innovative and have a very well proven track records of performing in extreme conditions. Norwegian winters, fall, spring and summer can be rather harsh...


Edited by MostlyHarmless (06/18/09 03:31 PM)

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#175020 - 06/18/09 06:04 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
NobodySpecial Offline
Member

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 197
It seems to mainly be a UK thing that everyone carries a 'dalesman international' survival bag.
They are simply very large (sleeping bag size) very thick, orange plastic garbage bags. They fold down to a letter size * 1/4" thick package, are reusable and only cost around $5.

I've had to use a mylar space blanket twice. As a diver to make sun screen for someone who collapsed on the beach and on top of a mountain in Egypt (it's the desert - who would have thought it was so cold!). On the beach they work great, on the mountain I wished I had the survival bag.

For the same size/weigth/cost as a space blanket you can get disposable orange ponchos that are just as warm, allow you to move and keep you drier.




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#175061 - 06/19/09 05:03 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: WolfBrother]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Originally Posted By: WolfBrother
WB Edited to Specific:
Originally Posted By: Lono
We trialed it at an annual drill, and decided against. Not to be crass, but we thought the mylar blankets would end up best used as temporary body wraps, for corpses, which is what alot of disaster survivors might end up if this was their only shelter for a 40 degree night with rain.


If you would, specifically what happened?

What worked?

What didn't work?

With cold/rain was there a problem with conductive heat loss?



Hi WB,

As I recall we decided in favor of the yellow-type emergency blankets more common among EMTs at accident scenes, over the mylar space blanket things. The yellow emergency blankets are made of a layer or several layers of some type of fabric and may not be as good for heat loss, but they are mostly weather proof/resistant and they are in a generaly good supply. I know we split up a box of them that the local FD gave to us. I think the issue for space blankets just came in the comparison of ease of use - we pulled the yellow emergency blankets out of a dispenser box, and they were ready to place on the patient. The space blankets we needed to unfold, and while some may contend they are sturdier than all that, I know that when I was flinging a folded up space blanket and trying to open it up, I could tear it in two. The yellow emergency blankets also seemed to cover patients better, and there is not so much crinkling when covering and uncovering to access wounds, vitals etc. I don't know whether an injured patient could survive a night under a yellow emegency blanket, but it gave at least as good a vapor barrier as mylar, and was as resistant to wind.

Plus these were yellow, which might have played a role :-) Again, our choice was highly specific to our intended use, which may not arrive for years if ever. And the yellow emergency blankets ended up being free, whereas if we had to justify the dollars spent we might spend a few dollars per to buy them - I would, but anyone on a budget might make a different call. I don't think I would walk out into the woods with a yellow emergency blanket in my pack, but I wouldn't walk out with a space blanket either, not as long as I have an AMK bivvy.


Edited by Lono (06/19/09 05:05 PM)

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#175068 - 06/19/09 07:24 PM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: NobodySpecial]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: NobodySpecial
It seems to mainly be a UK thing that everyone carries a 'dalesman international' survival bag.
They are simply very large (sleeping bag size) very thick, orange plastic garbage bags. They fold down to a letter size * 1/4" thick package, are reusable and only cost around $5.



The plastic bags are intended to be used as an emergency shelter. They do work reasonably well. The bright orange also makes you very visible.

Contary to popular opinion, mylar blankets are worth carrying because they are very effective as a waterproofing layer for a shelter. You get a lot for a very small weight and pack size. They can also be used in a desert enviroment to improve protection from the sun.

Yes they are noisy. Too bad.
Better to loose a night's sleep as the price of being warm and dry. The alternative won't leave you in any fit state to complain. Ever.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#175099 - 06/21/09 05:06 AM Re: What about the survival blanket type sleeping bag? [Re: MostlyHarmless]
kmk Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 4
The AMK reusable ones are NICE. i just got one for my kit

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