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#173186 - 05/12/09 02:55 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: HerbG]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: HerbG
Also, does anybody recognize what kind of combination gun they are using?

If it's the same gun we're talking about, the narrator said it's a Savage .22/.410 combo. Sorry, I didn't catch the model number but should be easy enough to look up (does Savage even make more than one model of .22/.410 combo gun?)

In one scene, a guy was trying to shoot a ground squirrel (is that what one of the cast members was referring to as "gophers"?) and I wonder if he chose to use the .22 or .410 on it? He apparently missed since it scampered away. It looked like he had hit it, but I guess it was simply reacting to the sound of the gunshot when it jerked away. They didn't find any blood at that spot.

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#173189 - 05/12/09 04:32 PM Food and The Alaskan Experiment [Re: KenK]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
I watched short bits and pieces of different episodes this weekend, too. One thing that I was personally interested in were people's comments about how they felt. Most felt really crappy, beyond just hungry, due to lack of food.

I guess it's just on my mind because of those series of apparently shill posts recently about a certain product (Izzy's joke still rings in my ears, "IT'S PEOPLE! Lxxx xxxS ARE PEOPLE!"). I don't know if anyone else noticed, but putting aside the apparent product endorsement, the posts did also raise the issue of survival diets, which I have been thinking about recently anyway. The typical diet is high in refined carbs, including simple sugars, and most of us are accustomed to regular meals. Suddenly being put in a situation with little food, and pretty much no refined carbohydrates, can require a big adjustment. Until your body adjusts, you are going to feel awful or at least uncomfortable. Extreme fatigue, headaches, dizziness, are all things that the cast members were complaining about on the show. I didn't see the part where the guy faints, as Ken mentioned, but it's not surprising.

I personally have never seriously tried any of these diet plans, especially the hard core ones, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I was thinking as I watched these people on TV that in a survival situation, someone who is already on what could generically be referred to as a "ketogenic" diet might have a distinct advantage by being able to function at a higher level, particuarly in the early days of being stranded somewhere with little to no food. Ketogenic diets are diets that encourage a metabolic state that produces and primarily uses compounds called ketones rather than sugar (i.e. glucose) and this state is achieved by restricting your intake of carbohydrates or just food in general.

Ketosis is the state that your body naturally shifts towards when starving or fasting so it is a natural reaction to lack of food or diets mostly devoid of carbs. More hard core ketogenic diets include Atkins or Protein Power, while more moderate version would be South Beach. In addition, people who regularly fast, whether for health or spiritual reasons, would likely also be more accustomed to a lack of food in some survival situation and might function better if suddenly thrown into a survival situation with little to no food, or forced to rely on a survival diet skewed towards eating only game meat. You can feel pretty crappy when transitioning from a high carb diet to a state of ketosis, although some people make the switch more easily than others. But in the meantime, doing things like hiking 8 miles with a 50 pound load like on the show while going through this metabolic transition is going to be really rough on most people.

This will make benjammin happy, but this ketosis topic is why a survival food like Pemmican makes sense. If getting gobs of carbs, or even enough total calories, are going to be a problem, which is likely out in the wild, then your body is going to shift to a ketogenic state anyway, which can be an uncomfortable transition if you're not used to it. It can take weeks for some to fully make the transition and feel good again. But once in that state, you can do quite well on a high protein and fat food like Pemmican. Shorter term, even just the protein part could be sufficient for our bodies, I think, because our bodies can use the ample fat stores that most of us carry around. Longer term, though, getting sufficient calories from food becomes an issue if our love handles are no longer so full of loving anymore. That's when other topics like "rabbit starvation" start to become an issue.

It's a good idea to test out your survival/emergency food just so you know how you'll react. Can you personally function on just 1,600 calories of day from those 3-day lifeboat rations like Mainstay bars? Can you tolerate eating MRE's as your sole food source for days? Do you end up with diarrhea or constipation when eating your emergency supplies? It probably makes sense to encourage average people to store foods similar to what they are already accustomed to eating. Fewer surprises that way. An emergency is not the time to discover that your emergency food supply really does not agree with your gut or body or that you feel really, really awful if you're not eating your normal foods or eating as often as you're used to.

And, for the record, I'm not necessarily advocating ketogenic diets as a healthy everyday diet. No one really knows if they're healthy over the long term, like over decades, especially in our later years. I'm just saying that if I were going to be on this TV show, I think I might go on the Atkins diet diet in the weeks leading up to the show so I can look goooood on TV without fainting. grin

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#173194 - 05/12/09 05:13 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: Arney]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Gun #1
Looks like a Remington-Spartan model 94 .22/.410 to me.
I believe they were also given a .45-70 in one of the latest episodes.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

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#173202 - 05/12/09 06:00 PM Re: Food and The Alaskan Experiment [Re: Arney]
Erik_B Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 315
Loc: Somewhere in my own little wor...
Originally Posted By: Arney
I watched short bits and pieces of different episodes this weekend, too. One thing that I was personally interested in were people's comments about how they felt. Most felt really crappy, beyond just hungry, due to lack of food.

I guess it's just on my mind because of those series of apparently shill posts recently about a certain product (Izzy's joke still rings in my ears, "IT'S PEOPLE! Lxxx xxxS ARE PEOPLE!"). I don't know if anyone else noticed, but putting aside the apparent product endorsement, the posts did also raise the issue of survival diets, which I have been thinking about recently anyway. The typical diet is high in refined carbs, including simple sugars, and most of us are accustomed to regular meals. Suddenly being put in a situation with little food, and pretty much no refined carbohydrates, can require a big adjustment. Until your body adjusts, you are going to feel awful or at least uncomfortable. Extreme fatigue, headaches, dizziness, are all things that the cast members were complaining about on the show. I didn't see the part where the guy faints, as Ken mentioned, but it's not surprising.

I personally have never seriously tried any of these diet plans, especially the hard core ones, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but I was thinking as I watched these people on TV that in a survival situation, someone who is already on what could generically be referred to as a "ketogenic" diet might have a distinct advantage by being able to function at a higher level, particuarly in the early days of being stranded somewhere with little to no food. Ketogenic diets are diets that encourage a metabolic state that produces and primarily uses compounds called ketones rather than sugar (i.e. glucose) and this state is achieved by restricting your intake of carbohydrates or just food in general.

Ketosis is the state that your body naturally shifts towards when starving or fasting so it is a natural reaction to lack of food or diets mostly devoid of carbs. More hard core ketogenic diets include Atkins or Protein Power, while more moderate version would be South Beach. In addition, people who regularly fast, whether for health or spiritual reasons, would likely also be more accustomed to a lack of food in some survival situation and might function better if suddenly thrown into a survival situation with little to no food, or forced to rely on a survival diet skewed towards eating only game meat. You can feel pretty crappy when transitioning from a high carb diet to a state of ketosis, although some people make the switch more easily than others. But in the meantime, doing things like hiking 8 miles with a 50 pound load like on the show while going through this metabolic transition is going to be really rough on most people.

This will make benjammin happy, but this ketosis topic is why a survival food like Pemmican makes sense. If getting gobs of carbs, or even enough total calories, are going to be a problem, which is likely out in the wild, then your body is going to shift to a ketogenic state anyway, which can be an uncomfortable transition if you're not used to it. It can take weeks for some to fully make the transition and feel good again. But once in that state, you can do quite well on a high protein and fat food like Pemmican. Shorter term, even just the protein part could be sufficient for our bodies, I think, because our bodies can use the ample fat stores that most of us carry around. Longer term, though, getting sufficient calories from food becomes an issue if our love handles are no longer so full of loving anymore. That's when other topics like "rabbit starvation" start to become an issue.

It's a good idea to test out your survival/emergency food just so you know how you'll react. Can you personally function on just 1,600 calories of day from those 3-day lifeboat rations like Mainstay bars? Can you tolerate eating MRE's as your sole food source for days? Do you end up with diarrhea or constipation when eating your emergency supplies? It probably makes sense to encourage average people to store foods similar to what they are already accustomed to eating. Fewer surprises that way. An emergency is not the time to discover that your emergency food supply really does not agree with your gut or body or that you feel really, really awful if you're not eating your normal foods or eating as often as you're used to.

And, for the record, I'm not necessarily advocating ketogenic diets as a healthy everyday diet. No one really knows if they're healthy over the long term, like over decades, especially in our later years. I'm just saying that if I were going to be on this TV show, I think I might go on the Atkins diet diet in the weeks leading up to the show so I can look goooood on TV without fainting. grin


well said, though i'd advise leaving a few weeks to fatten back up before going out. i've gotten over that hump twice recently, and it's amazing how fast you shrink once you really start consuming your reserves.
yeah 1600 in fine if you're not moving around. they are life boat rations afterall. MRE get a lot of flak, but i like em and would be quite happy with a diet of MREs.

Quote:
1 liter Nalgene wide-mouth bottle - wrapped with what looked like burlap - probably to keep it from freezing. They tended to carry them everywhere.


will burlap provide enough insulation for that? i figured it was just to cover the brand label.


Edited by Erik_B (05/12/09 06:05 PM)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: scafool
Camping teaches us what things we can live without.


Originally Posted By: ironraven
...Shopping appeals to the soul of the hunter-gatherer.

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#173203 - 05/12/09 06:01 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: Stu]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
Actually Arney, ketogenic diets have been debunked as a long term diet plan. But your synopsis is very accurate.

I think with the cop who fainted and left the show there was several factors other than diet that affected him, but the diet was a big factor.

He was as far as I could tell the heaviest of the group. It seems he was only getting an equal share of the food, which someone else has mentioned earlier in the thread here. Group dynamics had, IMHO, a lot to do with this but he should have got more food than the lightest person.

He was not used to the rigors of the terrain or environment. I believe he mentions this in one of his video journal entries. Between the 'hiking', extreme weather and probably some altitude sickness he was hurting for the start.

He was carrying more weight than anyone else in his pack at 60 lb. compared to people carrying 10-20 lbs less. I think two factors at play, 1st an assumption of the group based on his size he could/should carry more, 2nd as a police officer he is ingrained to help the weak and would assume more responsibility.

Having seen all the epi. one thing I have not seen is 'A' leader emerge or someone elected leader. Leaders yes, but this group is still being run by committee and no good can come of that.

_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

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#173204 - 05/12/09 06:55 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: comms]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
A long time ago I was on a hike in the BC fjords with a co-ed group of high schoolers. We started on our first big meal in the bush, and everyone was keen to get their share, and the guide was quick to point out that not only was I to be the first one in line, but that I was also the first to get any second helpings if there were any. His explanation was that I was given the rope and probably had the heaviest pack besides because I was the biggest person in the group, and if anyone else wanted to volunteer to take the rope from my pack and carry it on theirs instead, they would get the same treatment. No complaints, and no volunteers to carry the rope. I chowed well the whole of the hike, but I paid for it.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#173842 - 05/27/09 01:26 AM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: KenK]
Erik_B Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/10/07
Posts: 315
Loc: Somewhere in my own little wor...
i'm watching this weeks' episode right now.
she's playing with the severed heads! she's finally snapped and it's awesome.!


Edited by Erik_B (05/27/09 01:29 AM)
_________________________
Originally Posted By: scafool
Camping teaches us what things we can live without.


Originally Posted By: ironraven
...Shopping appeals to the soul of the hunter-gatherer.

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#173866 - 05/27/09 02:57 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: Erik_B]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
The reality of how difficult it is to be a proficient hunter/gatherer will make the pickiest of eaters resort to dastic measures to get by. Ironic.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#173941 - 05/29/09 02:35 AM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: benjammin]
DannyL Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
With 2 trying to gather food, and the rest sitting on their butts pity-potting themselves, I think I would be walking around pushing their "Spot buttons" whether they liked it or not.

After the 2nd day of me feeding 5 other people I would probably be slapping some around.....

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#174538 - 06/08/09 01:14 PM Re: The Alaskan Experiment [Re: DannyL]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Resurrecting this thread because the last episode of the season is on Tuesday night, and also because I saw the supply list here:

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/out-of-the-wild/supply-list.html

and wondered what others would bring for their "one" personal item.

For me, it was a bottle of high potency multi-vitamins. Or maybe a bottle of Ibruprofren, or maybe a bottle of rum (the girls seemed particularly fond of it).
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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