Over the last five years I have been gathering gear for my survival/day kit. I planned to use a G.I. butt pack to stow it in, but I've found that it's too small to stow the gear I need. I've surfed the net but it seems there's nothing intermediate between a day pack and a medium Alice pack.
Any advise? I'd like to get something good but not too pricey and not too big.

Maybe one of the small backpacks that kids use to haul around their books & stuff to & from school.

Maybe a small cotton canvas rucksack like this, that you can find in surplus stores and thrift stores. No breaking zippers, extra cordage from the fastening cord at the top. You waterproof it with a small dry bag liner or something.

This one is worth a look. The big advantage is a real, functional, internal frame that transfers the load to the hips efficiently, meaning you can carry serious weight comfortably, if need be. However, it's volume is more like a large day pack. It is also very adjustable for size. It doesn't look too "tactical" and blends in like an ordinary day pack, especially the "civilian" colors. It's $100 with free shipping, which may be over budget, but it is listed elsewhere at over $170, and well worth it. I own two; one is for deployments, the other is my BOB/travel/day hiking pack, and I'm very happy with them after extended use. Kelty MAP 3500

* 1950 cubic inch volume
* 420d HD nylon Oxford mesh cover on back panel and shoulder strap
* 420 gram, 100% nylon Airmesh EVA foam in back panel and shoulder straps
* 500 denier nylon Kodra (1000d on ACU color!) construction, double stitched
* Internal suspension, two fit to form Light-Beam stay rods
* Panel loading pack, single large compartment 2 exterior zippered pockets
* Interior hydration pouch, supports up to 100 oz. bladder, 210d nylon ripstop
* Hydration port at top of pack allows for drink tube to be used over either shoulder.
* Hydration port has snap on top flap closure
* Exterior cargo pocket with fleece eyewear pocket and admin organizer pocket
* Side mesh pockets (fits 1 quart lexan water bottles each side)
* Waist belt (removable) with Scherer cinch system, with waist belt tuck-away feature
* Adjustable sternum strap
* Fully adjustable (removable/replaceable) shoulder straps

I own the Mountainsmith Approach 3.0 daypack. I have had it for a few years and love it. I like the pocket configuration. In addition to the main compartment, it has two vertical side pockets, a front pocket, and a verticle front pocket. It has a pocket for a hydration pack and two outside pockets for water bottles that are canted forward so you can remove and replace your water without removing the pack. There is an expandable space between the front pocket and the main pocket . There are straps across the bottom so you can lash on a sleeping bag or your jacket. Daisy chains on the shoulder straps and the bag itself to attach more stuff. To top it all off, the sternum strap has an integrated whistle.

Oh, and customer service at Mountainsmith is fantastic. I broke the hip belt latch by shutting it in my trunk. When I emailed Mountainsmith asking where I could buy a new one, they sent an e-mail back saying that one was in the mail. It arrived a week later, no charge.

Great bag, great service.

You may want to consider two of the large mountainsmith lumbar packs (mountainsmith stuff in my experience is very high quality/good value). The two lumbar/butt packs are the "day" and the smaller "tour".

http://mountainsmith.com/products.asp?subCategoryId=3&categoryId=4

You can get them cheaper then price listed on their site - I got both of them on ebay a few years ago. The bigger one is the "day" and it holds ovver 850 cubic inches.

For REALLY high value in a day pack, get the $40 LLBean "classic continental rucksack". One big compartment, three side pockets, everything excellent quality. Holds 2000 cubic inches. Very versatile - I love mine. Just a great bargain with many uses.

Reviews on the LLBean website.

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...8-sub2&np=Y

Here's another option.

That pack looks great. Bookmarking the website right now. Thanks for mentioning it, Jeff.

Through the years I've found two GREAT products from L.L. Bean:

One is the Bigelow Day Pack. I have an earlier version than the one currently sold, and I really like it. Its my "Scoutmaster" pack that carries all sorts of gear during Scout events. Its lasted amazingly well over the years. Note that it even comes with its own self-stowing rain cover - kewal!! Its also real important to me that it comes in two sizes since I'm taller than most folks (6'5"). They say it was identified as a "best buy" by Backpacker magazine last year. I'd agree.

BTW, the other product from L.L. Bean that I really like is their All Leather Gore-tex Day Hikers. I wear them almost every day and they've been very comfortable and have been noticeably more durable that any of the boots I've tried in years past. Highly recommended!!

Added Note: If you search the L.L. Bean site using "Bigelow" you'll find that they are selling what might be last year's model for only $60. That's a great deal.

I would guess you are looking for something around the 40 litre volume mark for a intermediate size.

One of the packs from the Karrimor Sabre SF range would most likely fullfill your requirements

http://www.pri.uk.com/ksf/index.html

Perhaps the Sabre 45 would suit. It also has the additional flexibility to add additional 12.5 litre side pockets to take the total to 70 litres capacity.

http://www.raymears.com/Bushcraft_Product/293-Karrimor-Sabre-45/

I would also recommend the Cross Bow system from Lowe Alpine as I still use a Lowe Alpine Contour Crossbow 50 and the Lowe Alpine Crossbow 65+ Expedition pack (which are now unavailable ) if you can find a retailer. These packs are very stable and comfortable.

The Berghaus Bioflex® back system gets good reviews being exceptionally comfortable and again gives a stable load carry although the C7 Bioflex® 65 + 10 Backpack might be a little to large for your requirements;

http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/UAN/3098/v/1/sp/

http://www.nevisport.com/detail.asp?StoreID=0&Depth=1&ProductID=404002

+1 for the Kelty MAP 3500, I own 3 and its a good pack. The Kelty Redwing is also good, I own several of an earlier variant with an integrated rain cover that comes in handy. Kelty makes pretty good daypacks for the masses, affordable with decent zippers and access and good suspension if your preparations get a little heavy. The Kelty MAP 3500 is great for that, but if you find you have a little less than just about any other quality day pack will do.

Thanks everybody, you have given me a lot of food for thought. Most of your reccommendations fit my needs. Now I will have to make a choice!

I have the same "Scoutmaster" pack, a couple years old version of the Bigelow. It was put together to carry all the stuff that we feel we have to have when we're playing shepherd for the boys in the wild . I leave it in the vehicle all the time now, and it's been a handy supplement to the rest of the gear that's always in the truck. It just reaffirms with my friends that I have a combination hardware / sporting goods store in the back of my truck.

I second the Kelty packs.

If you're looking to stay military (based on your OP), there are the "Bug Out" bags, aka 3-day bags, that are essentially daypacks. Also you can sometimes find "small" ALICE bags that are pseudo-military. Don't forget that there are day packs on the newer MOLLE packs, that are sometimes sold seperately.

Cheaperthandirt.com
actiongear.com

both have a good selection of military gear, though CTD tends to be knock-offs of originals.

I think the new, updated models have a few nice refinements. One caution - don't expect the waist belt to shift much off your shoulders onto the hips.

For $39.50 you can't go wrong.

Tom, I had some pretty good results way back when with a pistol belt pad on my LLB Ruck's belt. With the newer pads and a couple of MALICE clips or zipties you would probably get a better ride. Heck, you could just cut the belt off at about 3 inches from the bag, stitch a loop, and use a pistol or rigger belt (or just some webbing and an SBR), two alice clips and a pad- I've seen similiar done to put good waist belts onto the SpecOps THE pack, and if pulled tight it doesn't wiggle all that much.

The other nice thing about the Continental Ruck is if you need more space, you can undo the flap straps and run them through the mounting loops for an ALICE or MOLLE buttpack.

Yes, it is a versatile little beast. Mine is still going strong after 15 years.

Start with what size you need ( cubic) and then search for packs in that range. Lots of new, but discounted options at campmor and many used on ebay ( search by specific name of the pack)

I would love to chime in and throw in my 2 cents, but with where I live my idea of a BOB backpack is a Kelty Super Tioga I don't think it would help much.

But trust me, buy Kelty, you can't go wrong.

Used to be, back in the 70s and 80, but less so by 2000, that if you wanted a solid day pack you had to but from one of the manufacturers catering to hikers. Often you had to troop down to the local backpacker/outdoors center. If you went to the big box retailers, the Wal-Marts and Targets, for such gear you found only third-rate goods that was suitable only for backyard camping.

Things have changed. Yes, you can still head down to the local outdoor center and invest in a Kelty or Jansport day pack. But you can also find good quality day packs in the local Wal-Mart and Target. Typically they go from $20 for a to $60 depending on what you want. The most expensive one is almost big enough for a serious three day trip if you pack light and it will likely come with a good quality knock-off of a Camelback bladder.

The trick buying a good one is to examine the hell out of it before you buy. The most common defect is sloppy or missing stitching, short seam margins and other pretty easy to spot problems. Odds are the materials are good quality because the cost savings are made on labor not materials. The failures are almost always in how, the amount of care, they put into assembling it. Carefully inspect every seam inch-by-inch. Turn the pack inside out. This is easier if you bring a small flashlight. Give the attachment points a firm yank.

Funny thing is that as long as you don't block the isle and you put everything back in good order most of clerks at the larger retailers are unlikely to object. Reach into the stack and buy one at random and your taking your chances. So dig in and find the most perfect specimen.

You can still buy brand name packs for serious coin if it makes you feel better. But there are good quality day packs available for low prices if your willing to spend time avoiding the duds.

Fabric on cheap packs can be very low quality. Instead of
Cordura Nylon they use a vinyl coated fabric that on the outside
looks like Cordura but has a tenth of the tear strength.
Check to make sure there is a coating not a vinyl laminate
on the inside (wrong side) of the material.

I have a 3 day assault pack made by Tactical Tailor. I got it cheap, straight from the manufacturer (my brother knows them well), and they are extremely tough. Blackhawk makes a nice one too. Granted, they arent cheap; they ARE built to last though. my TT one has loops on the outside that I can attach pouches to, which makes it nice.

Iron Raven, you are WAY ahead of me technically. AND I have many friends in VT.

I have one of the first generation Maxpedition Condor packs. Extremely well built, heavily constructed -- meaning heavy. If you need a very rugged pack and have bullet-proof near the top of your requirements, go for it. However, a good quality backpacking pack will give you a better trade-off in quality construction and weight. YMMV

*laughs* I was broke. I had my Continental. I needed something smaller than my ALICE. So I got inventive.

you got a butt pack there a lot of type other then the old type blackwater makes a cool one but it 85$ . I just got one to macth my ACU its a litter bigger then the MIL type got mine at IMS-PLUS web site

I use a backpack daily to carry my EDC. It is very light but my EDC is pretty light too. Its got more than enough room to carry some extras I might need or things i may buy. Its not unlike all the backpack links you got earlier.

The nice thing about a small daypack, or climbing pack, style is that they do NOT look militaristic and blend in with the civilian world very easily. Go with a normal looking ruck and you won't get a second look.

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