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#173890 - 05/28/09 01:31 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm Doesn't Exist [Re: AROTC]
Hornfrog Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Central Texas
Well, as far as I am concerned I am not back to pistols really, because I never left them! You see, what I do now is carry an Airlight S&W 22 caliber eight round revolver in a holster settled on my belt in the middle of my belt where its lightness is often forgotten till I undress at the of the day. And often I carry a very lightweight 20GA pump shotgun, too. This combination works for nearly everything except ideal personal protection from the quite possible ne’er do wells often encountered in remote areas that motor vehicles can still reach. So, what I have proposed is to somehow combine a 22 with a shotgun in one very light and convenient general purpose “survival” firearm but always carry a sidearm for the human threats that are possible. This cuts down on weight. Less weight to carry obviously translates into more energy to enjoy the great outdoors and increase the likelihood that you will have what you need when you need it. I think it excessive to carry two pistols plus the shotgun for routine outings and if two of them could be combined into one it would just be more sensible.
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"I had rather be right, than consistent" - Winston Churchill (Colquhoun - "Se je pui")

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#173891 - 05/28/09 01:32 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: Hornfrog]
Hornfrog Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/08/06
Posts: 26
Loc: Central Texas
Well, as far as I am concerned I am not back to pistols really, because I never left them! You see, what I do now is carry an Airlight S&W 22 caliber eight round revolver in a holster settled on my belt in the middle of my belt where its lightness is often forgotten till I undress at the of the day. And often I carry a very lightweight 20GA pump shotgun, too. This combination works for nearly everything except ideal personal protection from the quite possible ne’er do wells often encountered in remote areas that motor vehicles can still reach. So, what I have proposed is to somehow combine a 22 with a shotgun in one very light and convenient general purpose “survival” firearm but always carry a sidearm for the human threats that are possible. This cuts down on weight. Less weight to carry obviously translates into more energy to enjoy the great outdoors and increase the likelihood that you will have what you need when you need it. I think it excessive to carry two pistols plus the shotgun for routine outings and if two of them could be combined into one it would just be more sensible.
_________________________
"I had rather be right, than consistent" - Winston Churchill (Colquhoun - "Se je pui")

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#173940 - 05/29/09 02:32 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: Hornfrog]
DannyL Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
I usually stay away from firearms threads, but to me the perfect survival firearm is a .22 LR rifle. Not a pistol, but a rifle.


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#173946 - 05/29/09 06:27 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: DannyL]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Can anyone imagine those first caribou hunters who followed herds across the Bering land bridge ( and sometimes followed them back to Siberia) and what they faced? Prehistoric bears that stood AT THE SHOULDER taller than humans that could outrun a horse.This is why my military background gave rise to an early thesis of a largely coastal migration in skin boats ( accepted for my degree though dismissed by my chair who never once sailed the ocean.)
I am waiting for our cheecakos on 'THE ALASKAN EXPERIMENT' to blunder into the most deadly of alaskan mammals ( sourdoughs all agree the mosquitos and no see ums are the real killers)---A bull moose in rut.
Fact is, more people are injured or killed by moose in Alaska than all the polar,grizz,black and kodiak brownies combined.
"If we have a race war, I'm siding with the bears."- John Muir

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#173956 - 05/29/09 01:47 PM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

Chris..i'll bet those Short Face bears were ho-hum to the Old Guys.."give him a lance in the ear and i'll finish off with my 357 leaf point"...

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#173985 - 05/30/09 03:53 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Echo that Chris. Unless I'm hunting, the ONLY reason I carry a rifle in the woods is moose in rut. A randy bull moose can destroy a Volvo, and he's just being romantic with it.

I'm squishier than a Volvo.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#173989 - 05/30/09 05:05 AM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: ironraven]
Taurus Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 458
Loc: Northern Canada
To answer the origional question I think what you describe has been invented some time ago. Its called a Ruger 10/22.

As I sit here doing some quick math I have concluded that my trusty Ruger 10/22 has:

(1.)Had over 10,000 rds put through it.
(2.)Has never needed a part replaced
(3.)Has stocked my freezer with countless tasty critters over the years.

It it reliable, reasonably accurate,easy to use and has only jammed a select handful of times usually due to being dirty or frozen while hunting rabbit at -50 deg cel. It dosen't break down like some models but I have yet to have a real reason that I would need it to. If a 10/22 is too bulky or heavy for you then you most likely don't belong in the woods to start with.

Spare Parts and ammo are virtually everywhere you can imagine and it is a gun that anyone can afford to own and shoot often as to build up a high level of skill. I can buy about 500 rounds of ammo for the same cost as about 10 rounds for my .338 L.

Its as close to the perfect survival gun as anything I can imagine. Everyone should have one.

Oh, and by the way. I, as some of you spend a lot of time hunting in dangerous game territory. IMHO, ANY gun you think is the final answer for self SD against a charging griz is nothing more than an expensive false sense of security. I have heard tell of people point blanking these monsters with .30-06 several times and still ending up geting mauled. I am not saying that a large bullet won't help, but in the long run the best defense you have against dangerous game is never to put yourself in its path. Know and respect your foe, and give it its space. Buying a survival gun out of fear of getting killed may be a waste of money if thats your biggest concern. Rutting Moose make plenty of noise so your best bet is to stay the hell out of his way rather than humping an artillery barrel on your back every time you hit the woods.

Just my thoughts

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#173999 - 05/30/09 01:59 PM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: Taurus]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
As I have told numerous folks who are heading to Alaska: The only firearm you need is a .22 pistol/revolver. If you are being attacked, all you do is knee-cap your partner -- you only have to be faster than one person... crazy

I do agree about the 10/22..Great firearm. I put a Williams peep sight with a hooded front sight. Helped a bunch with improving my marginal accuracy.

Standard Disclaimer

2 cents


Edited by MoBOB (05/30/09 02:00 PM)
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"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#174000 - 05/30/09 02:19 PM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: MoBOB]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
So why does it have to be a firearm?

Many places, an air rifle would work, or just a good ole bow with a quiver. Easier to replace broken parts in the woods too.

Personally, in 24 years of camping, I've NEVER carried a firearm into the woods. Absolutely never needed to. I have to agree with Taurus (welcome back, btw), there's a false sense of security with them.

OK, back on-topic. A .22 (I'm partial to a 10/22) probably works best. A buddy of mine had an old bolt-action with a 10-ish round magazine, and that was nice. Slap on a lighter stock (bullpup even?) and you've got a nice solid set up with greater range and only slightly worse weight. Of course, a .17HMR probably would work too.

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#174004 - 05/30/09 04:12 PM Re: The Perfect Survival Firearm [Re: MDinana]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
The world record bear is a monster Polar killed by an Inuit with-- a 220 Swift.
I helped murder a Kodiak that became a danger to a local community.
The post mortim revealed old wounds holding 14 rounds ranging from .30 to .375 caliber, all poorly placed. I'd have an attitude too.
Later a butcher suffered a fatal heart attack and gently crashlanded his J 3 in a big meadow. When we arrived bears were everywhere eating black deer sausages, moose chops and caribou stew cuts. I discharged 17 of 20 .375 rounds I had ( read earlier post about private weapons supplamneting the Ithaca survival rifle) and they still ignored us. So, we waited until they were finished before moving in. I had my last 3 loaded, everybody's nervous and I'm laughing. If I had a belly full of black deer suasage why eat a stringy coastie?
After military service, I spent a season on Kenai doing bear surveys. We all checked out on the .375 H&H. More importantly, we learned how to avoid confrontations.
More bears are murdered annually than all the deaths of humans since records were kept.
In the RARE case of a bear charge the standard shot is one to the shoulder to break the charge and THEN a killing shot, or shots. For that a robust bullet of high sectional density; a 7MM 174 GR .30 220gr .357 350 gr etc. is best.
What is better, is to just be loud,obnoxious and behave like most people outdoors. Bears actually have rather high standards of who they socialise with. Drooling grizz on the cover of Outdoor Strife sell magazines, not common sense.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (05/30/09 04:16 PM)

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