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#172409 - 04/29/09 07:42 PM Check Your Nuts
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

Lug nuts of course..i had to do a tire change on my seldom used Canoe Car to get it ready for the season.WD-40 stuff and a long breaker bar were the only thing that would budge them.
if you were packed up and getting out of town with a million other cars outrunning a hurricane or----insert your disaster here---i don't think you would want to be by the side of the road jumping up and down on a dealer supplyed L wrench freaked out that the kid who put the tire on used a impact wrench at it's full setting..i went around to all the tires and made sure every lug nut could be removed with that X wrench by hand.
a remote canoe landing would be just as bad as the freeway out of Savannah..

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#172410 - 04/29/09 08:04 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Phew, that's a knuckle-buster.

I occasionally use a product called Liquid Wrench for otherwise impossible jobs. Reading the label, you realize it's totally evil stuff. But it works wonders.

With smaller cars, there's a good reason for that stubby little lug wrench. The recommended torque is quite low (76 ft-lb for my old Toyota and 85 for the Mazdas). I learned the hard way, using the wrench from an old GMC pickup and snapping a couple studs clean off the Toyota. Whoops. Now I use a torque wrench.

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#172417 - 04/29/09 08:42 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hey Canoedogs,

Good advice to check your lug nuts. I have had more than my share of problem flat tires in the bush.

If the lug nuts are on too tight, I also use a penatrating oil, but if you do not have that try Bug Dope (100% Deet Repex I think it was), I have had it work for me in the past.

I have used the hollow handle of a Jack-All many times as a cheater bar on the wrench and it works well.

Once I twisted the socket head off an X wrench and had to make a Sat. Phone call for a wrench to be delivered to me, that was expensive.

Twice my tire changing problem was due to not being able to lower the spare tire from under the bed of the truck, due to corrison in the lowering assembly. Once I had to call for a flatbed, the other time my helper had small enough hands that he reached in with my Leathernam and snipped the cable.

Mike

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#172422 - 04/29/09 09:20 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: SwampDonkey]
RayW Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 601
Loc: Orlando, FL
Good advice, have had lug nuts that required a cheater bar to get loose. While you are checking out the lug nuts don't forget the spare tire. Check the air pressure and if on a truck or other vehicle where it is lowered by a chain or a cable make sure that works too.

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#172428 - 04/29/09 10:34 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: RayW]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Another trick if you're without a cheater bar and have one of the verticle post bumper jacks is to use it as a mecanical lift.
Just place the ratchet star on the lip and start cranking.

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#172429 - 04/29/09 10:39 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: RayW]
barbakane Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 205
Loc: Florida
I get an old rim, the same size that's on the car now, and when I get new tires I have them put the best old tire on the extra rim and store that in the trunk where the tiny spare was. It is higher than the well is deep, so I just throw a fabric tarp, then a plastic tarp over it,pack my emergency car kit around that, and I'm good to go. Sure beats either having a totally useless (flat) spare, or a small spare that's not recommended over 55 mph.

I also duct tape an extra car key on the back of my license plate. I don't trust the magnetic key holders, as years ago I lost one. Also by doing this, it keeps you out of the dirt, wet, grease, etc. if you happen to put the magnetic holder somewhere more creative and hard to reach (lot less likely for someone to find).
_________________________
seeking to balance risk and reward
Audaces fortuna iuvat...fortune favors the bold
Practice methodical caution...Les Stroud

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#172445 - 04/30/09 01:50 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: barbakane]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
Swamp..only someone north of the Cross Canada Highway would think of using bug juice on rusty bolts--
Barbakene..i'll do that full spare trick.that small donut would not last long on the washboard gravel "roads"

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#172453 - 04/30/09 03:14 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Generally when I have wheel work done I try to remember to request they finish tightening the nuts with a torque wrench or calibrated air socket. Most good shops have the later and if used they make over-tightening pretty hard to do.

IMO if the lug nuts have been tightened that tight you might seriously consider replacing the bolts. Over time the bolts corrode and stretch and fatigue. It is entirely possible for fatigued bolts to snap if you hit a bump.

Fortunately in all the vehicles I know about the replacement bolts are just a couple of bucks a pop and are easy to replace.

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#172470 - 04/30/09 11:47 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: Art_in_FL]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
For budging rusty fasteners Kroil is better than WD-40 by far.
(but use what you have)

A proper socket and long breaker bar for the lugnuts (and the lugnuts after the chrome cap falls off) goes into all the cars.
Busting the cheap OEM lugwrench is to be expected for a stuck nut.

I use anti-seize on the lug threads occasionally. NOT the coned faces of the nuts and wheel but the threads. (My lawyer is aghast that I posted this in public. So don't do it. I died from it a couple of times last year. Probably will die from it a few times this year as well.)

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#172518 - 04/30/09 09:37 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: unimogbert]
RayW Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 601
Loc: Orlando, FL
+1 on the Kroil, PB Blaster is about as good and a little easier to find.

I also use anti-seize on the lug threads and haven't lost a wheel yet, but read unimogbert's disclaimer above.

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#172522 - 04/30/09 09:56 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: RayW]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
PB blaster is "da bomb" compared to Liquid Wrench and some other stuff I've tried over the years. I just used some yesterday to free up an aluminum sanding disc that was stuck onto a steel axle, worked like a charm.

+3 on the anti-seize, used sparingly and with hand tightened lug nuts, never had a problem with either loosening or not loosening...;^)


JohnE
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#172530 - 05/01/09 01:11 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: JohnE]
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
If using Never Seize, reduce your tightening torque by ten per cent. Initially Never Seize will act as a lubricant and the wheel nuts will be over torqued even when using a torque wrench.

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#172539 - 05/01/09 05:27 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: turbo]
epirider Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/03/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wyoming, USA
Good advise! Had one of the nurses I work with going home on the interstate day before yesterday - had her FRONT wheel come off while traveling at 75 mph. Luckly she was able to control the vehicle and pull safely off the road. Shaken and crying but safe. I asked when the last time she had work done on her tires / wheels and she said that her husband took it to a Walmart tire center a few days before. Just goes to show you that double checking others work is unfortunately a sad fact of life any more.
_________________________
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
Thomas Jefferson

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#172541 - 05/01/09 10:36 AM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: epirider]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I had bought new tires once and after the "free" tire rotation it took two people standing on a pipe on the end of the lug wrench to get one of the nuts off.
I've found that I can rotate tires or change the oil quicker than I can drive to the quick change places to get it done without having to worry about what they screw up.
People say their time is worth too much to do it themselves but if it takes 15 minutes to drive there, wait 15 to get the work done then another 15 home, thats too much time when I can do the work in about 30 minutes total.

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#172545 - 05/01/09 01:45 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
joost Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 12
Loc: The Netherlands
Hi, ex-OMF member here, just wanted to post this, the longest cheater bar ever (I'm squatting by the wheel):

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#172547 - 05/01/09 02:06 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: joost]
CAP613 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 87
Loc: W. PA
I want to know what the sledge hammer was for ? Use to run an old Chevy pickup, use anti seise on the lugs and never had a problem. First time I took the wheels off it took two of us standing on a four foot pipe on the cross wrench to get one of the back wheels off that is whet started me using grease on them.
_________________________
Ward

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#172554 - 05/01/09 04:25 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CAP613]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Another tire problem I have had, is not being able to remove the mounted (flat) tire from the vehicle after the lug nuts are off. Usually a hit with a big hammer will pop it off, but last summer I had to call for service as I could not remove the mounted tire from my Ford 3/4 ton work pickup. Unfortunately I was not present when the service man took the mounted tire off, so I do not know how he did it?

Mike

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#172560 - 05/01/09 06:53 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: SwampDonkey]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
Swamp--your in the bogs and swamps alot??..could it had rusted so much??..

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#172562 - 05/01/09 06:59 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: joost]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA
Joost--and everyone--if nothing else all these posts make me feel a bit better knowing that i'm not the only one..i can sort of see how Joost moved along from wrench to hammer to bigger and bigger hammer to really big breaker bar..

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#172565 - 05/01/09 08:55 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Your putting you self at risk using anything on lug nuts when installing them.

If they are corroded, over-torqued or galled enough to need a long lever to loosen them they should be replaced. To meet engineering standards for safety and reliability they need to be installed and torqued clean and dry. Generally no oil or other compounds are recommended, needed or helpful for installation.

If you commonly run your vehicle in the surf or other corrosive environments you may want to apply a preservative grease to them after they are installed and torqued but check with the manufacturer. This grease would need to be removed before the nuts are reinstalled for long term use. This can be skipped when your repairing a flat in the field but needs to be taken care of properly ASAP.

Odds are you can get away with applying an anti-seize compound, goose grease, or what have you, lots of people do it. But your eating up the safety margins built into the design. Some day you may need that extra margin of safety and when you do ...

Those bolt are expendable. At the first sign of trouble replace them. Compared to other things they are cheap. Wheels do fall off ... usually at the worse possible time.

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#172598 - 05/02/09 06:43 PM Re: Check Your Nuts [Re: CANOEDOGS]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi CANOEDOGGS,

I think you are right that the rim rusted on, the tire had been on the truck for about 2 years through some tough, wet country.

Mike

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