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#170199 - 03/27/09 01:12 AM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" [Re: ironraven]
Meadowlark Offline
Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Northern Colorado
UPDATE: Still putting my fishing kit together. Thanks again for the additional info, everyone.


Regarding schlubs: as a kid, I once found a good-sized steelhead trout that had somehow washed up onto a stream bank after a storm.

Seeing that it had recently expired and not wanting it to go to waste, I took it home and cooked it over a small grill in the backyard, fins and all, poking at it occasionally for doneness. I then let it cool and inexpertly sliced at the blackened skin with a knife. All in all, it was a satisfying, if somewhat overly messy, meal.

So I suppose that if I was able to figure it out what to do with a fish as a 12 year-old, most others would be able to figure it out, too. smile




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Along the mountain track,
And as I go, I love to sing,
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Current kits: http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showgallery&Number=241840

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#170216 - 03/27/09 12:12 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yesterday" [Re: ]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3556
Loc: Spring, Texas
Quote:
the irony is I don't eat fish and don't like fish. Lol.


shocked

-Blast
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#170376 - 03/30/09 10:48 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: ]
drahthaar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 105
Hmm - so folks don't have any problem figuring out how to fillet and cook a fish but learning to tie a line to line knot is just too much for them to remember so they best carry along some swivels? Okey dokey.

And yes, flash sometimes does attract fish - that's the principle behind spinners, spoons, and a variety of other lures. Still not a good idea when baitfishing, though. If someone is concerned that they are going to miss catching a fish because bait doesn't work, instead of swivels it would probably be best to carry a few inches of x-mas tinsel to tie to the hook. That way the fish will hit at the hook, instead of the swivel.

Oh and what are folks going to do if they have to tie a shoelace to paracord or something? Should they carry along some titanium o-rings so they can tie two terminal knots to it instead of trying to remember how to tie a line to line knot? Sorry for the the snarks, folks, but all of this smacks of after the fact justifications of why people carry around a bunch of swivels in a survival fishing kit.

I mean the two reasons people give for having swivels is that they will prevent line twist/breaking and allow hooking lines together just don't make sense. Like I said, when I used to run trotlines I lost far more fish to bent hooks than I did to broken lines. So this isn't a theoretical concept to me. I mean if people have experience losing lots of fish to twisted line when running unattended lines, I'd like to hear it. Just doesn't happen in my experience. (And, here I am talking about freshwater fish.)

And a note to ironraven - sorry if I caused you offense. I just try to be a plain-spoken as possible and I assume (perhaps mistakenly) that people would prefer blunt honesty.

Good fishing folks.


Edited by drahthaar (03/30/09 11:02 PM)

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#170377 - 03/31/09 12:08 AM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: drahthaar]
Andrew_S Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: drahthaar
Sorry for the the snarks, folks, but all of this smacks of after the fact justifications of why people carry around a bunch of swivels in a survival fishing kit.


Actually, it's my suggestion that you're snarking at, and I don't carry any swivels at all. Ever.

The plain fact is, most people are lousy at fishing knots, particularly if they don't fish often. That's experience speaking: I've worked as a fishing guide, and seen it again and again.

So I guess folks can choose: they can either decide to learn a bunch of knots, and make sure they don't forget them, even if they only fish a few days a year and never join one line to another ... or they can carry some swivels. Just in case they get lost in the woods some day, you know.

Tough choice.

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#170386 - 03/31/09 03:38 AM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: Andrew_S]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Okay, here's the deal with knot tying vs. snap swivels. Growing up we never used swivels for anything. We tied off our leaders to our line and the hooks or lures we used and that was that. Back then, my fingers were more nimble, and my teeth were a lot sharper. Monofilament line was all we used and it was plenty soft enough to bite through. Nowadays my fingers don't work so well, especially when they are wet and cold, and my teeth don't cut the new braided line very well. I terminate my line with a snap swivel because my fingers will at least work well enough to pinch the wire open and closed. I can then re-gear in about 30 seconds, and I know the knot I tied in the end of the snap swivel is good to go. I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead.

I have never lost a fish to a straightened hook, but I've lost plenty to line breaks. Sometimes you just can't avoid the snags, or get the drag turned down quick enough. Steelhead are good at breaking line.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#170390 - 03/31/09 11:06 AM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: benjammin]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Each to their own. I have several snap swivels in my kit and I have used the for other things than fishing!

I make sure I "use" my emergency fishing kit several times a year to keep in practice. I've made a number of changes in my kit based on what I've experienced in the practice sessions.
I've also used many of the item in my kit to build traps and snares for small animals and birds. A somewhat wise old ex "Coastie" puddle pirate once reminded me Perfect Practice Prevents P*ss Poor Performance.
How does one know their gear is in good shape and will work if you don't practice.

BTW, SUE
The pointy end of the hooks go in the fish, not in you! grin
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Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
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#170406 - 03/31/09 04:25 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: benjammin]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 609
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: benjammin
Okay, here's the deal with knot tying vs. snap swivels. Growing up we never used swivels for anything. We tied off our leaders to our line and the hooks or lures we used and that was that. Back then, my fingers were more nimble, and my teeth were a lot sharper. Monofilament line was all we used and it was plenty soft enough to bite through. Nowadays my fingers don't work so well, especially when they are wet and cold, and my teeth don't cut the new braided line very well. I terminate my line with a snap swivel because my fingers will at least work well enough to pinch the wire open and closed. I can then re-gear in about 30 seconds, and I know the knot I tied in the end of the snap swivel is good to go. I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead.

I have never lost a fish to a straightened hook, but I've lost plenty to line breaks. Sometimes you just can't avoid the snags, or get the drag turned down quick enough. Steelhead are good at breaking line.


Amen to all of that... I've been fishing for as long as I can remember with my dad. I always used snap swivels on my lines (spinning and bait setups). I've never had a problem catching fish on them. In survival mode, I carry swivels, hooks, sinkers, some spinners, and a few leaders. You just never know what conditions you will face.

If you don't want to carry them, don't. If you do, swell... It is all choice. It is easy for me to go from a bait setup to a spin setup with a swivel on the line. Would I desire that in a survival situation. Possibly. Weight of a few swivels, so minimal as to make no difference if I add them.
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#170419 - 03/31/09 09:28 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: Andrew_S]
drahthaar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 105
Originally Posted By: Andrew_S

So I guess folks can choose: they can either decide to learn a bunch of knots, and make sure they don't forget them, even if they only fish a few days a year and never join one line to another ... or they can carry some swivels. Just in case they get lost in the woods some day, you know.

Tough choice.


Oh, I understand, learning how to tie a line to line knot is just too much to expect from folks. Much easier to carry along some equipment to plug the knowledge hole. That is the approach that many people follow in their survival "preparations."

To each his (or her) own.

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#170420 - 03/31/09 09:38 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: drahthaar]
drahthaar Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 105
"I don't recall ever getting a strike on a snap swivel, not when there was a lure or bait on the end of the line for them to get instead."

That is interesting.

When fishing for trout in clear water I stopped using dropper rigs with swivels because I could see the fish hitting on the swivel a foot or two away from the lure. For that same reason, I stopped using (somewhat shiny) pinch-on lead weights and went to fly-fishing "mud" when I need to get a little more weight on my lure.

If a shiny swivel is no problem, I kind of wonder why fly fisherman use 8, 10, or 12 foot tippets?

Everybody has different experiences, I guess.

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#170447 - 04/01/09 01:01 PM Re: Fishing: "Oh, you should have been here yester [Re: drahthaar]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yep,

I've seen them eyeball that swivel as it goes by their nose a time or two, but never a hit.

Now there is a lake up in the Olympics, called Dee Lake, that they stock with Atlantic Salmon that are dumber than a box of rocks. You could throw a bass lure out in the water and they'd hit on it. The problem was it was a 12 mile hike from the trailhead to the lake, all uphill, and hodding those salmon back down wasn't exactly fun. We would keep a couple for camp, but you had to be careful, cuz the Olympics were full of blackies back then, and more than once we would find our salmon dug out of the snowbank in the morning.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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