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#169571 - 03/17/09 05:08 PM Re: Radio [Re: roberttheiii]
philip Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/19/05
Posts: 639
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
You haven't said what you plan on doing with the radio. Who do you plan on communicating with? Do you need more than one radio? Without knowing what you want to radio for, it's difficult to do more than guess on what radio service might work best for you.

My wife and I are ham radio operators, and we also use GMRS, FRS, and MURS radios. Each has its place. We don't have a boat, so we don't use Marine FM. If you own a boat, I'd suggest equipping it with a Marine radio, in addition to whatever else you may buy.

All radios are of some use in an emergency, but it depends. FRS and GMRS/FRS radios are toys with very limited range. However, Louise and I still use them when they fit our needs. We have 5W GMRS radios we bought when they still sold GMRS-only radios (and we got our GMRS license). They have decent, removable rubber duck antennas, and we get decent range from them. We use them often in big box stores when we go our separate ways to browse and shop. The range goes from a few blocks to a few miles, depending on terrain.

If you aren't interested in getting your ham license, don't bother getting a ham radio. An FCC license is required, you get a callsign, and hams are very protective of the privilege of operating, so if you use amateur radio without a license you likely will be turned in (and properly so).

Amateur radio, though, is the most useful of the various services we use. There are repeaters all over the area that extend the range of our handhelds to hundreds of square miles. When you have your hurricane, you'll be able to communicate with other hams who are outside the affected area to report your location, damage, injuries, etc.

The problem is that you really need to use your radios to be comfortable with them, to know how to use them in emergencies, and to be able to give reliable, understandable information to those trying to provide help. Louise and I are in an emergency communication club and have training on operating during emergencies. We also have CERT training, and we participate in CERT exercises using amateur radio. We volunteer to provide communications in various bikeathons, walkathons, and such for charities to raise funds, which provides training for all us hams as well as doing good for the community.

Conversely, whether you're licensed or not, if you get a ham radio and don't know what you're doing, you'll screw up the controlled communications that are providing rescue assistance.

If you get a marine radio, please learn how to use it, and do use it when you're on your boat. Knowledge is the key to effective communication, and you need to know what you're doing.

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#169585 - 03/17/09 07:57 PM Re: Radio [Re: philip]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
These threads have popped up occasionally and this is THE question that goes to the heart of giving a good answer.

The questioner often doesn't know enough about radios to understand the answers.
"good in an emergency" is too vague.
Radio is a complex topic.


If I wanted a radio that would really, really, really right-bloody-now get me some "help" I'd want a radio that can transmit on police frequencies.

But I might not survive the being discovered part of the exercise :-)
(if you thought hams were protective of their frequencies.... you oughta consider what the police would do when they found you talking to them!)

I've been a ham for better than 3 decades but I don't have enough info to address the OP's question.



Originally Posted By: philip
You haven't said what you plan on doing with the radio. Who do you plan on communicating with? Do you need more than one radio? Without knowing what you want to radio for, it's difficult to do more than guess on what radio service might work best for you.


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#169639 - 03/18/09 12:55 PM Re: Radio [Re: Tom_L]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
I think the statement that I don't know enough about radio to really understand the answers is a fair one. For example, I have no idea what the meter ranges are. Does this actually refer to antenna size or is it an alternate description of frequency?

It sounds like I should get certified in HAM if only to learn a bit about the topics and determine how much I want to invest in equipment and time after I know a bit more. Any one think it is a bad idea to take the test/learn about it?

I'm very interested in a hand held (I think one was mentioned) that can LEGALLY transmit on both marine and HAM bands. FRS would be convenient skiing, hunting, etc, to communicate with party members, but a handheld waterproof vhf/ham would be great for both marine use, possibly hobbie use, and emergencies.

Thanks again for all the help!

R

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#169646 - 03/18/09 02:26 PM Re: Radio [Re: roberttheiii]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
Meters--- refers to wavelength. Inversely related to frequency. The longer the wavelength the lower the frequency. Talking about the x meter band is kind of a mixup of the old ways of allocating frequencies to different radio services.
Mostly refers to ham radio allocations and shortwave broadcast allocations.


Getting a ham license is a good thing from the standpoint of knowlege always being good. It might become an addiction. Or it might not. But you'd know more about the radio world. (For the record- learning Morse code is no longer required for any class of ham license. If you encounter material saying that it is required you are looking at material several years old.)

Ham and VHF marine radio in the same package? I'm pretty sure that would be a NO.
Receive marine - yes. Transmit - no. (not w/o making illegal modifications)

Arrl.org has lots of startup info for new hams. (American Radio Relay League)

Have fun!


Originally Posted By: roberttheiii
I think the statement that I don't know enough about radio to really understand the answers is a fair one. For example, I have no idea what the meter ranges are. Does this actually refer to antenna size or is it an alternate description of frequency?

It sounds like I should get certified in HAM if only to learn a bit about the topics and determine how much I want to invest in equipment and time after I know a bit more. Any one think it is a bad idea to take the test/learn about it?

I'm very interested in a hand held (I think one was mentioned) that can LEGALLY transmit on both marine and HAM bands. FRS would be convenient skiing, hunting, etc, to communicate with party members, but a handheld waterproof vhf/ham would be great for both marine use, possibly hobbie use, and emergencies.

Thanks again for all the help!

R

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#169650 - 03/18/09 03:46 PM Re: Radio [Re: unimogbert]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Thanks. A little wiki searching gave me a reasonable understanding of the meter ranges as well.

I think I'll take the basic HAM test(s), then decide. I really wish I could find a HAM radio that trasmitted legally on marine VHF, was handheld and waterproof. The Yeausa/Standar Horizon lines flirt with it, and if modified (illegally) meet my critea, but I'm not sure I really want to break the law for convienience.

The majority (but not all) of boats I go out on have a marine VHF built in, but a handheld would be a nice backup for either a primary radio failure (pretty likely) or uhhh...more severe problems (flipped, sunk, lost, etc). I also duck hunt which involves relativly small aluminum boats with no built in VHF. Carrying a VHF on them would be of medium use though because a handheld may not make it to a coast guard station for TX and there are a lot fewer boats out listening in December. So there I rely on a cell and in the future a PLB.

I guess I'm not settled on what to do but I'm leaning towards a handheld HAM or marine VHF. Both would be nice, but perhaps a bit too costly.

We shall see.

Thanks again.

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#169653 - 03/18/09 04:29 PM Re: Radio [Re: roberttheiii]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: roberttheiii
...snip...
I'm very interested in a hand held (I think one was mentioned) that can LEGALLY transmit on both marine and HAM bands. ...snip...

R


GE MPA or MRK will do it - both are type accepted as Marine radios, and cover the Ham band. The ONLY down side is they are NOT frequency flexible - in other words, you can ONLY go on the frequencies you pre-program. Usually NOT a problem, as I have every major repeater in my area, plus all the common simplex frequencies programmed too. One of my MRKs actually was USCG surplus
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#169700 - 03/19/09 02:00 AM Re: Radio [Re: KG2V]
roberttheiii Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 393
Loc: Connecticut, USA
Sounds good, I'll take a look. Thanks.

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#169730 - 03/19/09 02:23 PM Re: Radio [Re: KG2V]
unimogbert Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
This is a very cool solution to the problem.

And it demonstrates how hams tinkering with radios is a good thing.

Looking in the ham radio catalog or the boat catalog would not have yielded this
solution.

Will take a cooperative radio shop to program it?


Originally Posted By: KG2V_was_kc2ixe

GE MPA or MRK will do it - both are type accepted as Marine radios, and cover the Ham band. The ONLY down side is they are NOT frequency flexible - in other words, you can ONLY go on the frequencies you pre-program. Usually NOT a problem, as I have every major repeater in my area, plus all the common simplex frequencies programmed too. One of my MRKs actually was USCG surplus

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#169733 - 03/19/09 02:39 PM Re: Radio [Re: unimogbert]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
There are a few different ways.
1)Find your local Ma/com shop (may cost $$$)
2)Find a ham who can do it - plus there are often folks on eBay who advertise programming
3)Look for the "conventional" DOS programmer software (which is out there with GE/Ma-com permission (or by the conventional windows software, not too expensive - the software that supports trunking is NOT cheap), and buy either a "RIB" (Radio Inferface box) and cable from Price Industries, or get a "ribless cable", which makes sense if you are not going to re-flash the radio, or not doing multiple types of radios. I use a RIB because I own about 6 different kinds of GE radios that use the same RIB
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#169820 - 03/20/09 02:52 PM Re: Radio [Re: KG2V]
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
Something I saw in a bulletin from the ARRL might be interesting to folks following this discussion about emergency comms, I've extracted the relevant text:

Special Bulletin 5 ARLX005
From ARRL Headquarters
Newington CT March 20, 2009
To all radio amateurs

SB SPCL ARL ARLX005
ARLX005 Global Simulated Emergency Test Scheduled for April

The HQ Stations of all IARU Member-Societies, as well as the stations of Emergency Communications Groups, have been invited by IARU Region 1 to participate in the 2009 Global Simulated Emergency Test (GlobalSET), on Saturday, April 18, 2009 from 1100-1500 UTC.
The GlobalSET will take place on and near the emergency Center of Activity (CoA) frequencies on 80, 40, 20, 17 and 15 meters, +/- QRM.
Stations in the United States intending to participate need to register through their IARU International Emergency Communications Coordinator. For the United States, registrations should be e-mailed to ARRL Emergency Preparedness and Response Manager Dennis Dura, K2DCD at, k2dcd@arrl.org.

Dura confirmed that W1AW will participate in the GlobalSET.

According to IARU Region 1 Emergency Communications Coordinator Greg Mossop, G0DUB, the GlobalSET is not a contest, but an emergency communications exercise to develop skills needed to provide an international emergency network.

Mossop said that the GlobalSET has four objectives:

To increase the common interest in emergency communications.

To test how usable the CoA frequencies are across ITU regions.

To create practices for international emergency communications.

To practice the relaying of messages using all modes: Voice (SSB), Data or CW.

"The exercise will build on earlier GlobalSET exercises and will focus on generating and relaying messages in a common format across country borders, rather than the information gathering capabilities that we've done in the past," Mossop said. "We will pass messages in a format that we may have to use for the agencies we may serve. The message exchange will take longer than in previous exercises, and stations will have to be patient to transmit their messages across country and language boundaries."

Each participating station is to send messages to their Regional HQ station using the IARU International Emergency Operating Procedure, using IARU message forms. Stations should relay the messages they receive to their Regional HQ station; the Region 2 station is TG0AA in Guatemala. To comply with license regulations, all messages should be addressed to Greg Mossop, G0DUB, and should come from a licensed radio amateur. Messages should contain fewer than 25 words and should not include anything that would be considered as a "real emergency" message by a listener. Mossop suggests constructing messages that include weather conditions, the number of operators at the station or even an interesting fact about the station. "There is no limit on the number of messages to be sent," he said, "but each one must have a unique message number." Regional HQ stations will not be sending messages, only receiving them.

Mossop recommends that in order to create "a more realistic situation, please limit your transmitting power during the exercise to 100 W. We are especially interested in stations operating mobile/portable and/or on emergency power."

Usually held in May, the 2009 GlobalSET was moved to April to tie into World Amateur Radio Day. The theme of the 2009 World Amateur Radio Day is Amateur Radio: Your Resource in Disaster and Emergency Communication. "This is an ideal opportunity to showcase the work of emergency communications groups around the world," Mossop said.

For more information on the 2009 GlobalSET, including a list of CoA frequencies for Regions 1, 2 and 3, please see the GlobalSET announcement at, http://www2.arrl.org/news/files/2009GlobalSET.pdf.
_________________________

- Ron

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