I also support 'doing whatever needs to be done.' Poll or no poll, make the call and see it through.

I can certainly understand why a sub-forum that tips toward the fringes might be more of a liability than an asset to someone in Mr. Ritter's position.

I'll also respect any final decision.

That said, if it is closed, I hope some of the more useful threads will be archived somehow. I haven't had time to read them all yet...

Martin, can you give me a minute ?

I voted for keeping the LTS, but even that is not satisafctory enough for me.

You see , ETS is not only a place to get together and discuss, it is also an on-line library of some kind. In it I have found some very interesting info and insights and I am sure many others have done the same.

To be better as a "library" I was always hoping for someday that DR or moderators would add another sub-forum and another and another. I wiahed for a subforum on :

- Health
- Gardening
- Alternate energy ( solar, wind ..etc. )

Yes, the search function can help us dig such threads among the endless pages , but a more structured and better organized forum was much better at presenting such subjects and better at helping us finding what we need.

During my memebership time, I was amazed to see things develop in such a direction (structure-wise) and even today I am still amazed. The vote here is to keep or kill lTS, but no one votes on keeping or killing another sub-forum which seems like ( picture gallery and to some extent the book borrowing section) . For the number of stickies you have in the first two sub-forums, you could add the threads in these last two as stickies, and no one will notice the disappearance of those microscopic sections

I know, this is not what you are complaining about . It is totally different stuff. I know. But this is how I see it from my angle.

Flaming and nasty stuff can be filtered using the help of a few more moderators. Is that what you are asking about ? I can dare propose the names of Blast, Susan , Izzy, and Benjamin are among the many members who can help greatly.
Many others are out there too.

My proposal here is to shift this subject from a vote on LTS, to a more comprehensive discussion of the restructring of ETS sub-forums.

Quite right, it might be a lot easier to ask for help than to draw a line.

I would also agree that removing this forum would only push the traffic you're trying to regulate to one of the other two.

Maybe it is time to consider an overhaul of the whole ETS forum area. If it's unmanagable in it's present form, there are other options that would be easier to monitor, manage, and still provide the sort of public outreach as was originally intended.

In the end it is still up to you my friend. Your solicitation for our opinions is appreciated, but it is still your call to make.

Is that the question? Or is it more a matter of deciding what topics we educate and stand on? I get the impression that Doug himself was originally only focussed on short-term incidents such as surviving light-plane crashes until rescue. Dealing with 3-month power cuts could be seen as off-topic even if it doesn't attract political discussion.

Personally I'd rather it was on-topic. The discussions have value.

It really boils down to what Doug wants. If he feels the posts in the LTS section hurt the overall goal of the Equipped Foundation then it needs to be shut down. The huge importance of that work overshadows the truly minor importance of this LTS section of the forums. I can easily see some airline/marine corporate gunslinger pulling out crazy quotes from this forum and saying, "Look at what Mr. Ritter believes! Do we really want to implement the crazy and EXPENSIVE ideas of such a crackpot?!"

I think a lot of us have forgotten or don't know the amount of time, effort, and arguing Doug puts into trying to make this a safer world. We see/know this forum and think it's the whole enchilada. In reality it's just the free chips they give you while you are waiting for the meal.

-Blast, who loves the LTS section, but doesn't want it to hurt Doug.

You're right, Blast, and that was a good point there. Let's just leave it to the forum owner.

Everyone -

Very thoughtful responses to the issue, and all are appreciated. Doug contacted me and asked me to not do anything to the forum in terms of deleting it, and the vote was perfectly clear.

I'd like to point out that more than a few of you made the connection between this site and the Equipped to Survive foundation - I think that this is an important thing to remember - there's a non-profit organization at the heart of this site and that organization's mission can be furthered or hindered by the subject matter and tone of discussion here in these very public forums.

As I like to remind people, Google indexes this site about every 90 seconds. Here's how to tell.

At 7:00 AM, March 23rd, while I was writing this post, searching Google for xptrrtiddfggeeww
- a string of random gibber - yielded no results. By the time you read this, a few minutes or hours from now, that gibberish will be in the Google index. Within a day or so it will be visible to the public. This site is closely monitored and generates a LOT of looker traffic as well as participants.

So when I see a post about something as simple as rainwater collection management, I expect a discussion of capture and distribution techniques, tried and true methods, innovative new thinking and so forth. I don't expect a discussion of Colorado laws on rainwater collection. If you don't see the difference, then you don't understand what this forum is all about. Similarly the inevitable gun discussions. It is possible to have a neutral discussion about guns. Really, it is. As long as you're discussion centers on the mechanical aspects of a gun, and never drifts from that central thesis, it's going to go fine.
Gardening topics? Almost the same as guns. Talk about the garden, not why you're making a garden. Ask about keeping the rabbits out, ask about what's good and easy to grow where and when. Don't bring economic Armageddon into it. We don't need that here.

So, the forum lives and I step aside to let it grow and flourish, and, to carry the gardening metaphor, I will be vigilant in the removal of noxious weeds that crop up in our idea garden.

That is all.

Martin Focazio
Your Cruise Director