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#167973 - 02/26/09 02:15 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: KenK]
CAP613 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 87
Loc: W. PA
I wonder if there have been false distress signals in that
area ? That or adverse weather would be the only reasons for not calling in a SAR efford that I can think of.

I know with ELT's we have had so many false ones that unless there is a missing aircraft we just run a three person DF team to find it and shut it down.

As for thr GPS that's what extra batteries are for, come on how much space/weight for two to four AA batteries.

If I was going into the back country I would spend the 450.00 on a PLB with out a doubt.
_________________________
Ward

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#167976 - 02/26/09 02:35 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: CAP613]
Andrew_S Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: CAP613
I know with ELT's we have had so many false ones that unless there is a missing aircraft we just run a three person DF team to find it and shut it down.


The big problem here is that the SAR response didn't even go that far. If they had, they probably would have found the victims camped near the signal.

Today there are more details in this story and this story.

Seems pretty clear there was fatal miscommunication here between the RCMP and Golden SAR (which is a volunteer organization). Golden SAR says "we can't search without RCMP say-so," but they didn't notify RCMP in the first place?

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#167980 - 02/26/09 02:58 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: KenK]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
A GPS is a great tool for staying found. Even a cheap GPS like my old Garmin Geko will point the way back to where you parked the car. A mapping GPS like my Garmin 60CSx will present a map of what's around you and put your location in perspective. Really useful tools, calling in the cavalry is not required if you stay found.

If you leave a GPS on continuously, you do run the risk of running down the batteries which is why:
1) You don't leave it running continuously, you turn it on, determine the course to your destination and then turn it off. Use a mag compass to follow that course; and,
2) Carry spare batteries, just in case.

As for the couple who got lost in this incident and the authorities who seemingly failed to respond, I have little to say that isn't fairly self evident to the readers of this board.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#167984 - 02/26/09 03:21 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Andrew_S]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
This story makes me equally sad and mad. It seems there were communication failures and judgment calls on both sides that added up to tragedy.

Meaning no disrespect to the family, I have to say that these skiers' actions, however innocent at the time, contributed greatly to the tragic events.

They checked out of their hotel, turned in their rental car, and then went skiing. Innocent, but it means they made themselves completely invisible. No-one knew where they were, there was no trace of them locally, and no-one would miss them for more than a week.

Then they went out of bounds. It's usually pretty hard to go out of bounds by accident, though it's not impossible. That made them doubly invisible. The rest, sadly, we know.

I can understand the reluctance of law enforcement to mount a ground search when there's no report of someone missing. Not only is a wild-goose chase costly, it can put searchers at significant risk. This is very steep mountain terrain in winter; it's serious avalanche country. The follow-up to additional sightings seemed a bit weak as reported (as seen from my comfortable armchair).

Both the skiers and the authorities made judgment calls that turned out to be tragically wrong. Better communication would have averted this.




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#167995 - 02/26/09 04:52 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: KenK]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1181
Loc: Channeled Scablands

I don't know the rules at that ski area, but one near Nelson
BC I have been to used to allow, even sort of advertised, that
there is good skiing to be had in the nearby out of bounds
backcountry. Unlike most areas here in CA that make it a crime to
leave the boundry.

The couple is still responsible for their actions, but leaving
the area may not be viewed in the same way it is in other
locations. IE, leaving the bounds of the ski area is not a
mistake, getting lost is.

If officials ignore SEVERAL SOS', whats to say they won't ignore
a PLB?


Edited by clearwater (02/26/09 05:02 PM)

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#168002 - 02/26/09 06:01 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: KenK]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
With the kind of thinking demonstrated by the people in charge, would a PLB have been of any benefit? Or would they have ignored that, too? "No, we don't have any report of people being out there, so don't worry about it."

Sue

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#168004 - 02/26/09 06:19 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Susan]
Andrew_S Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 59
If they'd had a PLB, then the call would have come through the normal channels to the RCMP, which has the responsibility for ground SAR in BC.

But in this case the initial call went into the volunteer SAR organization locally, where the local SAR manager took it upon himself to check with the resort for any sign of missing persons, and then not to notify the RCMP. Then, when the RCMP got the second report and called him, he told them it was a false alarm.

So I'm thinking a PLB or SPOT would have made a big difference in how things were handled.

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#168010 - 02/26/09 06:32 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Andrew_S]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
No one is going to want to hear my cold, soul-less opinion, so here goes anyways,

They deserve what they got. They have no one to blame but themselves for their mess, whether a volunteer group decided to help them or not. They made the mistake, and they paid the price. If you don't want to rely on the good will of others, don't make such reckless decisions.

That the SAR and others were as apparently callous as my own opinion is perhaps unfortunate, uncharitable, and seems lacking in compassion. However, that doesn't diminish one whit where ALL the responsibility for this tragedy lies, with the perpetrators.

I understand my view is not a popular one. It is, in my experience, realistic.

That's life.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#168019 - 02/26/09 07:12 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: benjammin]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I suspect that there wasn't a clear, formal process for dealing with reports. That seems to have compounded the problem. When there's a standard process, and an established chain of reporting, it's not so easy for things to be missed. So IMO we're looking at a communications failure, and a big one.

I can certainly see the challenge facing a small police detachment, dealing with a constant flow of tourists who often do not feel bound by the rules of normal behaviour or the laws of physics. FWIW, when the RCMP show up, the situation generally improves rapidly. They are highly professional, well trained, and the entry requirements are extensive. Callous disregard is not one of their defining traits.

Regrettably, something went off the rails in this situation.

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#168022 - 02/26/09 07:35 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: dougwalkabout]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
It sounds like the authorities put forth a less than desirable response. However, like in the US, I doubt the Canadian authorities have a mandate to protect everyone from everything. Basically you're on you own, and should make plans for this. Hopefully the authorities can/will help you out in dire circumstances ... but don't bet your life on it. What if the authorities were already out on another SAR mission and couldn't gather the resources to help you? Per the news reports it sounds like the error this time was communications, not resources, and definitely needs to be addressed - but the bottom line is you have to take responsibility for yourself. Nobody is guaranteed to help you out, no matter what their reason (lack of resources, incompetence, failed communications, etc.)

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