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#168182 - 02/28/09 03:44 AM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Comanche7]
Colourful Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/14/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Yukon
Working on solution:

A sigh on the boundaries of the ski area:

''Don't venture past this sign without at least one of the following:

Pictogram of PLB, VHF radio, satellite phone, etc...

But I know that signs are no antidote for human nature...

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#168189 - 02/28/09 12:23 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Colourful]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 340
Loc: CT
If there are mechanisms in place to effect a rescue, we like to think that they will work efficiently. At the same time, if one chooses to abdicate the responsibility for one's life or personal safety to others, one must accept the quality of the service provided. We do this every day--with surgeons, with automobile mechanics, with migrant fruitpickers--because the cost to us is deemed too high, to attend those needs personally. Many times we are afforded an opportunity to switch service providers, sometimes we are not. In any case, it is ultimately our own responsibility to carry the burden, or to pass it off to someone else, who may not find our needs as pressing as his own.
_________________________
Florida Cracker, Cracker Pony...oh, look: key lime pie!

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#168221 - 02/28/09 07:57 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: UncleGoo]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
What if this situation had happened because of a plane crash, and the plane was covered with snow, but various people saw the SOS?

"We didn't know there was a plane" isn't a really good excuse, is it?

Fixing blame is not my point as much as questioning the thought processes of the people who should have followed certain procedures and didn't. My main question is WHY?

Do 911 dispatchers generally critique an emergency call and decide not to send help? Do they get a call where all they can hear is choking or gasping, and since they can't get a full explanation, they don't send anyone out? (Well, yes, they do, but they usually lose their jobs.)

Don't change the rules in the middle of the game.

Sue

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#168227 - 02/28/09 09:59 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Susan]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 340
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: Susan

Fixing blame is not my point as much as questioning the thought processes of the people who should have followed certain procedures and didn't. My main question is WHY?

Don't change the rules in the middle of the game.

Sue


I wonder about the thought process, too, Sue. I guess I don't see it as changing the rules midgame, just that the unreliability is an integral part of the game.
_________________________
Florida Cracker, Cracker Pony...oh, look: key lime pie!

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#168230 - 02/28/09 11:20 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: haertig]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Canada
The 5P's Sum's it up very well [Poor Planning Provides Poor Performance]. In reality the army taught me the 7P's, but I skip the the 1st and 5th (which are the same )to be more politically correct.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#168233 - 02/28/09 11:48 PM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: BruceZed]
Russ Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 4594
Loc: SOCAL
Proper Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance

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#168240 - 03/01/09 12:57 AM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: UncleGoo]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Uncle Goo, it is true.
Unreliability is part of the game.

The two who got lost were never expecting to get ten days lost on an afternoon ski tour that was only to be a few hours of easy to follow track.
But why there is an immediate shift to blaming finding and finger pointing instead of problem solving is something I have never really understood.
It is a very immature attitude in my opinion, I would describe it as infantile.


Edited by scafool (03/01/09 01:05 AM)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#168250 - 03/01/09 03:56 AM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: scafool]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2594
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I suppose that families tend to close ranks as part of the grieving process. And perhaps public finger pointing at the authorities is natural in that context, especially since mistakes were clearly made. No doubt they have private opinions regarding how responsibility should be divided up.

One of the links I posted earlier really does give some insight into what went wrong. It doesn't answer every question, but for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, it's worth the time: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090226.wskier0226/BNStory/National/home



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#168261 - 03/01/09 07:41 AM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: Susan]
EMPnotImplyNuclear Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 309
What I think happened, is they didn't have a checklist smile
It always seems to be the case when there is a procedural screwup. Don't know procedure well enough, don't get regular exercise, don't have a checklist.
911 operators have a computer screen in front of them,
very hard to forget something when you have a script (and it notifies your supervisor).
They also handle a large volume of calls, and run through training scenarios regularly. If you don't do it every day, or practice everyday, you forget, which is why you need a checklist.



STOP and Hug-a-Tree, its not just for kids.


Edited by EMPnotImplyNuclear (03/01/09 07:41 AM)

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#168268 - 03/01/09 11:02 AM Re: Woman dies after pair lost in backcountry [Re: ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
It appears to me, on the basis of the news report, that when the SOS was reported, a check was made of both the locals and the guests at the resort. Every one was accounted for.

The missing couple had checked out and were therefor presumed to have left the area. It's probably not practical under normal circumstances for the RCMP to trace and contact every one who has been through the resort during that time frame. Given that everyone appeared to have been accounted for.

I am of the view that had the RCMP had reason to think that someone was in trouble, they would have made a search.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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