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#166588 - 02/06/09 05:06 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: Dan_McI]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Six garbage bags of stuff removed and delivered to former owner so far; more drawer and compartment exploration to go.

Long list of projects developing. Going to be a challenge to convert this racer-day sailer-occasional weekender into a boat that can cruise for a week or more independent of shore resources.

Self-steering gear, wind power generator, solar everything, more water storage, better galley, etcetera, etcetera. This is going to be a project of years, I suspect.

I'm loving it!

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#167371 - 02/19/09 07:03 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: dweste]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Power from wind or from water flow:

http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product4.asp

Hooked up with a local boat builder who is a low voltage contractor and master wood-worker. The fact that he can use my services is a giant plus. First tasks: rebuild a more secure companionway hatch door and install a second striker plate set up for the head door so it stays open and out of the way when desired.

Searching for an on-deck anchor and ground tackle system; there is not chain or rode locker on this boat. Looking at things like: Minn Kota Anchor Mate and EZAnchor Puller.

Thoughts?

Thanks.




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#167405 - 02/20/09 02:42 AM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: dweste]
Todd W Offline
Product Tester
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/14/04
Posts: 1928
Loc: Mountains of CA
Sounds like things are moving along! Congrats.
No useful info here for anchros other than we find 5 or so a year when water drops at hte lake smile I think they are all to small for you or you could have one.
_________________________
Self Sufficient Home - Our journey to self sufficiency.

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#167412 - 02/20/09 11:55 AM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: Todd W]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
From my quick look at it, the EZ Anchor Puller looks like it might be overkill for a boat under 40 feet. I know that I have pulled up by hand an achor for a 41 foot boat. If however you might be single-handed, it might be helpful.

No opinion about the Minn Kota Anchor Mate, I think I'd need to see it work.

I've seen anchor lines sold in 5 gallon buckets. Coiling one into a bucket could be a time-consuming task, but it might be a good storage idea.

As you might know, anchors function when given enough scope. The idea is that the anchor is allowed to dig into the bottom. When an chor has too little scope, it might did in, but the scope is likely to thereafter force the flukes to dig out of the bottom. If you are at anchor and want to lift your anchor, then pulling in scope is going to free the anchor from the bottom, at which time you will only be pulling up the weight of the anchor. My guess is also that you can easily pull sacope in by hand, because I know I've pulled a tugboat that was 100 feet long and had an engine designed for a locomotive.


Edited by Dan_McI (02/20/09 03:05 PM)

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#167452 - 02/20/09 09:22 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: Dan_McI]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Two challenges: 1 - where to neatly stow the anchor line and chain, and 2 - how to do everything single-handed, perhaps when not well (I get shoulder bursitis often enough to be concerned to plan for it) or in adverse conditions.

I have looked for manual-wind anchor winches that internally stow the anchor line but have not found any yet.

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#167457 - 02/21/09 12:31 AM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: Desperado]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Originally Posted By: Desperado
waves or W.A.V.E.S.??

LOL! Almost had Vernor's out my nose and all over my lecture.

My advice? Learn to SAIL. Anyone can own a boat (well, not financially, but in terms of pre-req's), but only a sailor can handle one. Take classes. Learn to navigate (by GPS, stars, etc). Know the rules of the road (despite Capt. Ron, they don't always move out of your way). Get in good with the local Coasties, cuz those guys can handle a boat. Get out in good weather and as you get more comfortable, get more and more "risky" weather sailing. 300 miles offshore is not the best time to learn about storms.

I had the pleasure of going on several day cruises on 26-ft sail boats. It was tough enough coordinating the sail and wind with 2 people. Get proficient at handling a boat by yourself - there's a suprising amount of stuff to do!

Have fun! I'm envious.

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#167471 - 02/21/09 06:09 AM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: MDinana]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2811
Loc: La-USA
I totally agree with you, MDinana!!!!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#167477 - 02/21/09 03:22 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: dweste]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: dweste
Two challenges: 1 - where to neatly stow the anchor line and chain, and 2 - how to do everything single-handed, perhaps when not well (I get shoulder bursitis often enough to be concerned to plan for it) or in adverse conditions.

I have looked for manual-wind anchor winches that internally stow the anchor line but have not found any yet.


Since, I think you might want to do things the cheap way anyways, how about as follows:

1. Anchor line of double-braided line, stowed ina 5-gallon bucket, so it can be put in a lazarette or other compartment and remain neat when stowed. My memeroy tells me to coil it as if flemished backwards and working in tiers (coil it tightly around the outside of the bucket, get a tight coil across the bottom, then take the line to the next tier along the outside wall and work back in for each tier, time consuming but it should pay out easily;
2. Run the anchor line up toward the bow from your cock pit using a series of snatch blocks and run right to a headsail winch. When you want to pull it in and your shoulder is acting up, then put it on the winch, grab a winch handle, crank and crank nd crank, until it is free of the bottom. Much better if you have a self-tailing winch, but if not, it will work. If you can use snatch blocks, perhaps you can change the lead as it hauls in or right before you haul it in and put the lead near the front of you cock pit and off the side of your boat, or maybe even put your boom out with your main down to serve as a lead.
3. For an anchor, it's tough to beat a danforth with a few feet of chain.

What do you intend to use as a tender if anything?

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#167479 - 02/21/09 03:36 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: MDinana]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: Desperado
waves or W.A.V.E.S.??
It was tough enough coordinating the sail and wind with 2 people. Get proficient at handling a boat by yourself - there's a suprising amount of stuff to do!

Have fun! I'm envious.


I'm envious too.

Sail handling is made a lot easier by creative rigging. I've raced boats that were 41 feet long and never used a main sail winch. We had a main sheet that used a six-to-one racheting block, with the top dead end lead connected to another set of four-to-one blocks, as a fine tune. It ended up as a twentyfour-to-one purchase and you simply did not need a winch to pull it in, even in 30 knots of breeze.

I also like lots of cam and stopper cleats, because they free up winches and other cleats. Since you probably should have little need to do really fast sail changes, the risks of needing to burn a halyard without a winch are minimal. I got a rope burn from having to do it once, but we did pretty good in that race, so it was kind of a badge of honor and it healed. I was both navigating and working the pit, and I got caught moving too fast between the two spots, and had no time to put on my gloves.

I agree with most of MDinana recommendations, but add one. KNOW, I mean really know, your home waters. Study your charts, highlight on thecharts or copies all of the places you shouldn't go. So, if your boat has a 5 foot draft, highlight the places where you think it is too shallow to go, say, the ten or eight and less places. Give yourself some spare ater under the keel. When I was working in New York Harbor, a bouy could not be moved twenty feet without me knowing it was not in the same spot. I was there all the time, I studied things, how it was supposed to look, etc. There were times I went into places where the water was shallow, but those were also times that I exercised caution and tried to keep my stern clear of any shallow spots. Protect your stern more than your bow, because that is where the props and rudder are located.

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#167506 - 02/21/09 07:41 PM Re: Indefinite survival on the water [Re: Dan_McI]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
All good stuff, thanks.

Challenges:

Even when able-bodied, hauling a 5-gallon bucket full of rope, anchor, and chain from cockpit to bow is an obstacle course of standing and running rigging. Can it be done? Of course. Will it be done? Yep. Is there a better, easier, less risky, more-reliable-in-all-conditions solution? That's what I am working toward.

My immediate home waters are an estimated 1,000 miles of Sacramento - San Joaquin Delta. These largely narrow and twisting sloughs feature murky water most of the year and little or no navigation aids, except for the two major deep water ship channels going to Stockton and to Sacramento.

Depth is rarely over 20 feet with shallow flats, sand bars, between-island-berms, with floating and fixed debris all over. I have never seen a chart detailed enough to trust except in general terms for depths 10 feet and under.

The boat supposedly drafts 4.5 feet or 4 feet 5 inches, depending on the documentation. I will be carefully checking this, though the one inch difference is unlikely to be critical often.

In the ship channels I do not worry much about depth because they are dredged to about 40 feet (I only check the charts every 10 seconds or so). In the sloughs I rely heavily on prior experience, visual inspection of shore topography and shoreline vegetation - especially aquatic weeds, and checking the charts every 30 seconds or so.

Areas strange to me and night navigation out of the ship channel areas call for very slow passage, and probably little or no sailing.



Edited by dweste (02/21/09 07:43 PM)

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