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#166851 - 02/10/09 11:50 PM Re: Senator Ihara Responds to Knife Rights [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1047
Loc: Hawaii, USA
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
People, An elected representative of the people has an ethical obligation to respond to his constituents, even when they are in disagreement.Now, suppose Aloha asked him to present a bill REQUIRING every able bodies Hawaiian to carry a emergency belt cutter, glass breaking knife?



Hey! Great idea Chris. Plus EDC a pocket kit. And if they don't want to make their own, we all know where they can buy one ready made. May I name you in my letter to him? wink
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http://hanzosoutdoors.blogspot.com/

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#166852 - 02/10/09 11:54 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: Brangdon]
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1047
Loc: Hawaii, USA
Originally Posted By: Brangdon
Originally Posted By: haertig
Originally Posted By: ratbert42
Has there ever been a society that's attempted to ban knives to this extent? I can't imagine there has.

England. If they're not there already, they've got to be getting mighty close by now. I think they were talking about banning kitchen knives with points on them. I don't know if that ever became law.
It didn't. It wasn't even seriously proposed (eg in Parliment, or by a politician who could actually do something about it); it was just a crazy idea from a doctor put out to draw attention to some report or other, which the media picked up on and sensationalised in order to provoke their readership. British law is quite specific that short, folding knives are de-facto tools rather than weapons.



Slipjoints only. Anything with a lock is a no no.
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http://hanzosoutdoors.blogspot.com/

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#166883 - 02/11/09 01:47 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: aloha]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
I believe every elected official also has an ethical obligation not to bring frivilous issues up for discussion at assembly. Banning folding knives from carry by the gen pub is a frivilous, if not capricious idea.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#166887 - 02/11/09 02:55 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: benjammin]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Maybe so - but this bill isn't getting a hearing in committee, it isn't getting debate, it's going nowhere. The total cost to the lege from introducing this bill is minimal. The only place its being debated afaik is here in this and a couple other knife forums.

Besides, one man's frivolity is a serious issue for someone else, and should be placed in context. There were probably bills introduced for years to ban smoking in public before anyone took them seriously. Or bills to address the effects of global warming - frivolous or serious stuff? If you deem it frivolous today, would you accept the bill in 25 years when the mean temperature is .4 degrees higher and Arizona is complaining of too much heat and too little water? Standard of frivolous, who decides?

It seems to me that part of effective governance is hearing from the public on all issues that concern them - the duty of a representative is to winnow the wheat from the chaff, and let the small stuff fall away. I've seen alot of bills introduced in all seriousness that could and should be deemed frivolous and capricious - downright against the constitution, I say. They all start as bills, no harm in that. Its when folks feel that they can't submit legislation because they can't beat someone's metric of frivolity that we should begin to worry.

Hey, let's talk about something else, a real survivor, like Sam the Koala...

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#166891 - 02/11/09 03:20 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: Brangdon]
Bill_G Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/06/08
Posts: 92
This is copied from "The Shooting Wire", an e-publication by Jim Shephard. Dougs actions were noticed outside the survival and knive arenas. Thanks Doug!

"And I'm offering Kudos to Doug Ritter of KnifeRights.org for taking a slice out of a Hawaiian bill that was introduced to - you guessed it - outlaw the pocket knife. Having been one of those people who has been accused of being paranoid, I think it's appropriate that Ritter was the first to tell about Hawaii Senate Bill 126. It would ban the "manufacturing, transfer, sale, possession or transportation of folding knives."

When Ritter first told of the bill, he also took the opportunity to blister State Senator Les Ihara for introducing a bill "by request" - meaning at the request of a constituent, not legislation Ihara had developed himself. In other words, a political introduction - that's "eyewash" in Washington-speak.

"It is imperative," wrote Ritter, "that Senator Ihara understand that knife owners do not take such things lightly."

Boy, did he make that point abundantly clear.

Yesterday, we were copied on a note sent by Senator Ihara to Ritter. Seems he's seen the error of his ways about introducing legislation he never intended to support:

"I am opposed to SB 126 and would vote against it if I ever voted on it. Because the Hawaii constitution allows only legislators to introduce bills, my policy has been to introduce bills on behalf of my constituents whenever requested. But if I cannot support a constituent bill, I sign it "by request" which signals to other senators that I am not requesting a public hearing for it. I believe this is a common view of many in the legislature, except for the senate president who introduce all Executive and Judiciary Branch bills "by request" though she may support some of them."

"In my 22 years in the Hawaii Legislature, I have signed many constituent bills 'by request', but I may now reconsider this policy and possibly refuse to introduce a constituent's bill in extreme situations (such as SB 126). Thank you for your inquiry and for helping to inspire the several hundred emails I received opposing SB 126. I am encouraged for our democracy by seeing so many people interested in public policy issues."

Seems MP Breitkreuz and Mr. Ritter are both deserving of atta-boys for their work toward common-sense in government.

Don't expect that to be a trend that catches on anytime soon, but it's a great thought.

Later this week, we'll have the story of a man who has discovered that a good idea given some exposure, can quickly turn into a lot more than expected.

It's not going to be the "million gunowner march" but it looks like we'll all have an opportunity to visibly express our displeasure with the way gun owners and the Second Amendment have been treated lately.

We'll keep you posted.

--Jim Shepherd "

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#166911 - 02/11/09 06:07 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: Bill_G]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Any sort of request which has no basis in fact, no empirical evidence that would support such a position, or otherwise goes against the sensibilities of the common man would be frivilous or worse. Global warming, along with knife and gun control, are frivilous at the least, and possibly capricious or even malicious in intent. Their ends cannot be justified nor rationalized, they are purely the result of emotive expression or perhaps reactionary.

Lawmakers have a responsibility to the public not to waste their time, nor their staff's time, nor the floor's time, in developing or bringing such ridiculous motions. The magnitude of the cost is not the issue. Waste is waste. Even moreso if they go on the record against such a position, for the very notion that a legislator would oppose such a position would by its nature make it at the least frivilous in context. That is just plain logic. It is as ridiculous as asking them to put forth the motion that the sky be called now and hereafter green rather than blue.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#166926 - 02/11/09 09:25 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Ha [Re: Bill_G]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 1944
Great piece with Ken Onion on the Pocket Knife Ban bill.

http://www.khon2.com/news/local/39409572.html

Make sure you watch the video and note the email shown!
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Doug Ritter
Editor
Equipped To SurviveŽ
Chairman & Executive Director
Equipped To Survive Foundation
www.KnifeRights.org
www.DougRitter.com

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#166935 - 02/11/09 10:43 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: benjammin]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Well Benjamin I think that's where you and I will have to agree to disagree, for the benefit of the forum and this thread. Because while I'm a die hard you'll pry my weapon from my cold dead hands kind of guy, I will submit that you can regulate aspects of gun ownership rationally and for the benefit of society. And while 'knife control' has all sorts of logic against it, I'll still admit that people should propose regulations to do so when they feel they're necessary. And climate change - don't get me started, I know even less about the science there but I sure don't find anything lacking empirical evidence or frivolous there. There's nothing illogical about these except willful blindness that throws out opposition to your views or mine.

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#166936 - 02/11/09 11:16 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: Lono]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 1944
Originally Posted By: Lono
Well Benjamin I think that's where you and I will have to agree to disagree, for the benefit of the forum and this thread.


Good plan...Didn't want to lock this thread. <~>
_________________________
Doug Ritter
Editor
Equipped To SurviveŽ
Chairman & Executive Director
Equipped To Survive Foundation
www.KnifeRights.org
www.DougRitter.com

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#166937 - 02/11/09 11:35 PM Re: Senator trying to ban all folding knives in Hawaii [Re: Doug_Ritter]
7point82 Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 478
Loc: Oklahoma
Thanks for the link Doug.

Whatever the intent on the part of the Senator the issue seems to have received more negative press than he expected.
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"There is not a man of us who does not at times need a helping hand to be stretched out to him, and then shame upon him who will not stretch out the helping hand to his brother." -Theodore Roosevelt

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