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#166661 - 02/07/09 08:16 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: Colourful]
DannyL Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 103
Loc: SE Alaska
Bear spray works. Just remember to rotate your stock yearly.

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#166663 - 02/07/09 10:49 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: Tom_L]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Tom_L


.44 Magnum is usually considered the minimum as far as bears go. But how many people can control the kick? You'd probably need to score several good hits to stop a bear, even that might not be enough. A 12ga. or decent hunting rifle would be better IMHO but it's still no guarantee.

I had a cousin die about a year ago, and was a BIG gun nut. My dad is actually in posession of 2 of his .44 pistols. The snub-nose (3" barrel) actually has a bigger kick than the 6" (Dirty Harry!) pistol. Suprisingly, we found in the duffel bag of ammo 2 different rounds. There certainly are "low kick" rounds available that, at 10 yards, I'm hitting 3" circles. Not great, but not bad for the first time shooting it.

That being said, for my Alaska trip I'm contemplating bringing a Winchester 94, in 30-30. Not sure if I need it, but I'll certainly grab some bear spray from REI and send it on over. I wonder though, if 30-30 is big enough, and if a 12ga. in 00 Buck (with some slugs thrown in) would be a better choice!

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#166664 - 02/07/09 11:03 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: Colourful]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
Here's a interesting and very expensive option, it's a last resort and whether it will stop a full charging grizzly is questionable, but as a last resort it may be an option if you don't have a shotgun with slugs. A .50 cal snub nose revolver.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/s...tegory_rn=15707

Model 500ES - Emergency Survival Tool Kit contains:

* Smith & Wesson Model 500, 2 3/4" Barrel with Bright Orange Hogue® recoil reducing grip
* Waterproof Storm® Case
* Blast Match™ Firestarter and WetFire tender
* Saber Cut™ Saw with fabric sheath
* Jet Scream™ whistle
* Star Flash™ signal mirror
* Polaris® compass
* Two MPI Mylar Space® Emergency Blankets
* Smith & Wesson Extreme Ops Liner Lock Folding Knife with Black Sheath
* "Bear Attacks of the Century - True Stories of Courage and Survival" book by Larry Mueller and Marguerite Reiss




Model: 500
Caliber: .500
Capacity: 5 Rounds
Barrel Length: 2 3/4"
Front Sight: Red Ramp
Rear Sight: Adjustable
Grip: Rubber
Frame: Extra Large
Finish: Satin Stainless
Overall Length: 9"
Material: Stainless Steel
Weight Empty: 54.8 oz.
_________________________
Failure is not an option!
USMC Jungle Environmental Survival Training PI 1985

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#166666 - 02/07/09 11:33 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: MDinana]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: Tom_L


.44 Magnum is usually considered the minimum as far as bears go. But how many people can control the kick? You'd probably need to score several good hits to stop a bear, even that might not be enough. A 12ga. or decent hunting rifle would be better IMHO but it's still no guarantee.

I had a cousin die about a year ago, and was a BIG gun nut. My dad is actually in posession of 2 of his .44 pistols. The snub-nose (3" barrel) actually has a bigger kick than the 6" (Dirty Harry!) pistol. Suprisingly, we found in the duffel bag of ammo 2 different rounds. There certainly are "low kick" rounds available that, at 10 yards, I'm hitting 3" circles. Not great, but not bad for the first time shooting it.

That being said, for my Alaska trip I'm contemplating bringing a Winchester 94, in 30-30. Not sure if I need it, but I'll certainly grab some bear spray from REI and send it on over. I wonder though, if 30-30 is big enough, and if a 12ga. in 00 Buck (with some slugs thrown in) would be a better choice!


If you choose to carry a long gun, there is NOTHING wrong with a good 12Ga. shotgun. If I was going to be allowed only one firearm it would be a Remington 870 with a rifled slug barrel. Even if it requires you to purchase one, it is worth every dollar. The express line in a 3" chamber is all you need.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#166674 - 02/08/09 02:16 AM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: DannyL]
yelp Offline
Member

Registered: 06/04/08
Posts: 172
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: DannyL
Bear spray works.


Had a can of bear spray explode on me once and it completely shut me down for a good forty minutes. I've seen video of it turning bears as well, and as previously noted when using an aerosol you've got to keep wind direction in mind - kinda difficult to do if a bear's charging you. There is also the factor that if you accidentally spray yourself along with a bear, the bear is going to recover first. Also recognize that aerosols are fragile mechanisms and won't stand up very well to daily abuse in the field for extended periods of time. Trust me on that one. And completely forget about bear spray if you're traveling by aircraft - an uncontained accidental discharge is going to bring the ship down.

I've spent the better part of five years living/working in bush Alaska and Desperado's absolutely correct - Remington 870 with slugs would be my first option. Actually, I'd want two people with 870's watching over me while I work, but logistics normally require that we work alone. I'd also not be able to do my job with a longarm, and if needed I promise that it'd be leaning up against my pack. I'd never recommend a sidearm for bear defense, but anything on you is better than not having it all. Life's a compromise, right?

With that in mind, I know a guy who "deterred an attack" from (shot off him) an adolescent grizzly with a .41 magnum - a meager bear gun at best, but it saved his life since it was on him and not with his pack 20 meters away. He's also extremely lucky to be alive since the bear had almost certainly never seen a human being before and didn't know what to expect - it was being cautious and on being shot, the bear ran.

MDinana: Bears normally don't come out of hibernation until late April or May up there...the qualifier being "normally." I'd be very surprised if you ran into one during March, but the possibility exists. PM me a mailing address and I'll pass you a copy of "Staying Safe in Bear Country." It's been mentioned in several threads (including this one) and it's solid information.

Required reading for people in bear country: Herrero's "Bear Attacks - Their Causes and Avoidance."

_________________________
(posting this as someone that has unintentionally done a bunch of stupid stuff in the past and will again...)

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#166679 - 02/08/09 07:31 AM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: MDinana]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Of course a snub nose will kick much harder. A long barrel might make recoil a bit more manageable but it might still be too much for a lot of people. A weaker load would help even more but at the cost of reduced stopping power.

I don't know about 30-30, it's generally considered inadequate. I've actually heard of a guy who killed a small bear with an AK in self-defense (multiple hits to torso at short range). Most hunters I know swear by a bolt action rifle in a decent caliber (at least .308).

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#166681 - 02/08/09 07:34 AM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: yelp]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
You know how they say to tell the difference between black bear and Grizzly scat?

Black bear scat is filled with the remants (seeds etc) of berrys, due to their diet

Grizzly scat has small bells in it, and smells like pepper spray, again, due to THEIR diet
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#166687 - 02/08/09 01:43 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: MDinana]
Blackeagle Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 36
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Not sure if I need it, but I'll certainly grab some bear spray from REI and send it on over. I wonder though, if 30-30 is big enough, and if a 12ga. in 00 Buck (with some slugs thrown in) would be a better choice!


Buckshot is not sufficient to stop a bear. Just go with slugs.

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#166690 - 02/08/09 02:10 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: Blackeagle]
marcy Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 9
Check these links they seem to have some interesting info. They show bear spray is quite effective but not perfect

http://alaskanalpinetreks.com/ramblings/2008/03/27/bear-spray-effectiveness/


http://www.jacksonholenews.com/Archives/Environmental/2004/040922-enviro.html

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

Toward the bottom of the last link is a chart showing that a firearm is also not not a perfect solution.

Marcy

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#166697 - 02/08/09 03:41 PM Re: Bear encounter and spray [Re: marcy]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
+1 Marcy!

I liked your third link the best. I could put up a wall of text explaining why, but I won't.

_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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