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#164671 - 01/23/09 04:30 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: Mike_H]
enolson484 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 20
Loc: SW Missouri
Did a little research, about five minutes. Here are the merit badges the Scouts could earn:

BACKPACKING
CAMPING
COOKING
EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS
FIRST AID
HIKING
INDIAN LORE
ORIENTEERING
WILDERNESS SURVIVAL

Every badge starts off with meeting X number of 1st Aid requirements, before going into the meat of the badge itself. All of these tie into the survival training, in one way or another. I've read through the Wilderness Survival Scout merit badge pamphlet as well as the checklist several times. Each time I've been pretty disappointed. Lacking in basic skill sets. However, when tied in with the above list, a Scout can get a fairly decent set of survival skill sets. Unfortunately, not every Scout takes out those badges. My Survival 101 package is geared towards opening the door to those badges, as well as training the Scouts in survival fundamentals. The badges are just a bennie. The real value, I feel, is the level of self-confidence some of the boys will, hopefully, have developed at the conclusion of the course.
_________________________
E. N. Olson

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#164680 - 01/23/09 05:30 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
BraveheartsProgeny Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 4
I've also been lurking for a while now, and it was this specific post that compelled me to join up.

I wish I could say I'm surprised by the parents' attitude toward their tender little hothouse flowers, but I'm not. I see it every day here in our university where parents call department heads to complain that little Johnny didn't get a good grade, even though Johnny blew off nearly every class.

I had the advantage of joining Civil Air Patrol when I was 14, and in addition to learning to fly, we did a LOT of SARCAP(Simulated Air Rescue) and bivouacing in completely primitive areas. What I learned out in the field was invaluable, not to mention the huge gains in confidence.

As a Webelos leader in West Virginia, we did a full day, full scale "survival day" where the boys learned just about every basic skill plus some unexpected (by them) complications when it came to triaging and evac-ing a "wounded" member out of the woods. Almost all of our boys came from families that hunted or fished, but we threw a few new things at them.

We relocated a few years later, and our new church-sponsored Boy Scout troop was planning a 50 mile hike at the same time as the girls were attending camp. The older girls hiked about 25 miles of rugged-in-spots Appalachian Trail, carrying all their gear including water, in the space of 4 days. I know my own twins started out well in excess of 40# of gear, and that was almost half their bodyweight at the time. (They wised up by the next year's hike)

Meanwhile, the Boy Scouts, who were the exact same age as the girls, completed their hike along a reclaimed railroad bed which was mostly flat and either graveled or paved as it's used by cyclers as well. They did NO COOKING on the trail, eating a cold breakfast and arranging for both LUNCH and DINNER to be DELIVERED to prearranged points along the trail. OMG!!!!!

Never guess which bunch I'd rather be stuck in the woods with... and btw, I'm a girl, too.

jane b


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#164686 - 01/23/09 06:09 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: BraveheartsProgeny]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Well to the party jane!

It is amazing how parents respond to things like this.

I'm actually fighting a battle with my DW about my son joining scouts when he is of age and learning how to shoot, use a knife, etc...

I was raised with all of the about, but I was never a scout. My dad felt it was important that I knew about these things. My wife fears that DS will get hurt. I go over to the silverware drawer, pull out a large chef knife and say that this is more dangerous on a day to day basis than any of the above activities that I want to engage him in.

*sigh* It really is all about preconceived notions.
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#164747 - 01/23/09 10:45 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: Mike_H]
JohnnyRocket Offline
Stranger

Registered: 08/27/06
Posts: 13
One big thing to keep in mind is that your audience is made up of children. Children have much different learning styles than adults. As a Marine, you were taught by instructors that were not only experts in thier subject area, but also trained to teach other adults. As a Marine, you were being trained by your employer, also a much different learning scenario than teaching children that are participating in an organization for fun. When an employer trains, it is for very specific outcomes, to an audience that is motivated to learn. Children are taught mainly by exploration and may not have enough exposure or understanding of the topic to even know if they are interested to learn the material.

My advice, as educator of both adults and children, and former USN, is to keep your lessons short. Fifteen minutes max for any type of lecture. I hate to even use the word lecture! Talk to them long enough to give them an understanding of what they are going to do, why it is important and safety considerations - then get them doing something! Get them up off their butts and have them do something together with a friend or two. (battle budy) Don't use groups bigger than three or it becomes a cool contest or one person does the work and everyone else goofs off. When you are lecturing, make sure you use handouts and visuals to help get your message across. This helps the visual learners and gives everyone something to learn from when you aren't around. Keep the overall activity about 45-50 minutes and then do something else. Kids have short attention spans. Don't expect them to be survival masters, but do give them several opportunities to practice at their own pace and with their friends and they will get it - I promise!

Start slowly, maybe one lesson per meeting, then a half day semminar and see how they are doing. Once you see a majority of the kids mastering the skills, then do your 48 hour exercise. I think you will see the team work and mastery of skills that are at par with adults.

Stay positive, keep the atmosphere fun, keep the kids involved and engaged and they will be your best "marketing" tool for thier own parents and the sissy parents too. Word of mouth from excited kids will over come quite a bit.

JR

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#164759 - 01/23/09 11:46 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: JohnnyRocket]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Sounds like good advice from JR, above.

I think this is a worthy and thoughtful discussion. I would just add that presenting knife skills as part of "tool safety" might be more palatable to the uninitiated. That's really the focus anyway.

The trick AFAIK is to divorce 'tools' from any hint of the sexy/macho/weapon thing.

Tools include saws, hammers, axes, shovels, drills, and cutting edges like chisels and knives. They will bite you if you don't show respect for their power and focus on the task at hand.

I think that the simple hacksaw is a good introduction to cutting tools, for kids who have no experience or parents who are nervous/inexperienced. You can do a surprising amount with a hacksaw. It will scrape you if you goof up, but that's it. And a one-third hacksaw blade, with sharp edges rounded and taped, will cut wood and bark, make a bit of kindling, strike a flint, cut rope and wire, etc. etc.

My two cents' worth.




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#164763 - 01/24/09 12:00 AM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: dougwalkabout]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Sounds like good advice from JR, above.

I think this is a worthy and thoughtful discussion. I would just add that presenting knife skills as part of "tool safety" might be more palatable to the uninitiated. That's really the focus anyway.

The trick AFAIK is to divorce 'tools' from any hint of the sexy/macho/weapon thing.

Tools include saws, hammers, axes, shovels, drills, and cutting edges like chisels and knives. They will bite you if you don't show respect for their power and focus on the task at hand.

I think that the simple hacksaw is a good introduction to cutting tools, for kids who have no experience or parents who are nervous/inexperienced. You can do a surprising amount with a hacksaw. It will scrape you if you goof up, but that's it. And a one-third hacksaw blade, with sharp edges rounded and taped, will cut wood and bark, make a bit of kindling, strike a flint, cut rope and wire, etc. etc.



My two cents' worth.




Or even a coping saw and small soft blocks of wood (tool wise). If you hurt yourself with a coping saw, there may be a point about not moving on to the hacksaw.


Edited by Desperado (01/24/09 12:01 AM)
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#164812 - 01/24/09 06:21 AM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: Desperado]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
We all had to start somewhere. A lot of kids don't have tool-savvy adult friends to learn from. Give them a simple, safe 'starter' tool like a hacksaw (or coping saw) and, once they get the hang of it, and realize what they can do with it, you can just see the lights turn on. Been there. It's really something.


Edited by dougwalkabout (01/24/09 06:22 AM)

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#164836 - 01/24/09 04:00 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: Mike_H]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Mike_H
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe

Make passing the survival/first aid course a requirement for remaining/advancing in the troop. If you can.

If not: try making it a requirement for participation in any of the active activities. After all the scout might have to render aid to a fellow member.

Part of me, the nasty part is considering various (perfectly legitimate) ways to encourage the touchy feely parent to take themselves and their offspring someplace else. The rest of me is saying that wouldn't be fair on the kids.


You can't go against national with things like this.



"Perfectly legitimate" means by lawful means. Learn the system. Understand the system. Use the system. Which should be second nature to any self respecting N.C.O.

It should be clearly understood that the touchy-feely brigade will be the first to complain/sue if something happens. No matter how minor. Which makes them a concern for the whole Scouting movement.

One other point: Any decent parent is protective of their children. Which is as it should be. Unfortunately the only way to teach children that it's not safe out here is to let them get hurt sometimes. You just make sure that it's minor.

Cut fingers, burns and bruises teach.

I've fallen out of tree's and off things. Burn and cut myself when I didn't listen.
It didn't kill me and it didn't traumatise me. It did however teach me caution and respect.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#164841 - 01/24/09 04:45 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: Desperado]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: Desperado

Top didn't hide the good compass, you were holding it backwards.


What? The arrow doesn't point to me? lol

There's been some great advice so far, esp. regards to how children learn differently. Looking back, I remember things like learning fires in our SM's backyard (dirt yard), or doing dayhikes, or cooking on propane stoves... but all done seperately. Never had any big "survival heavy" days. It was just kind of baby steps, and learning a little every meeting. our meetings were always an hour long, with about 1/2 of it going to skills training. So really, by the time I stepped up to the Wilderness Survival MB, I'd been doing lots of those things for months-years anyway.

The point is, see what the scouts should have already learned, and gloss over those sections. Focus more on being found, shelter, finding water, etc. Most of them should know how to start a fire, or find a decent site to set up camp.

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#164886 - 01/25/09 12:47 AM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I'm the webmaster for our Boy Scout troop. How about sharing some pictures of these outdoor survival classes? Our troop had our winter survival campout last weekend. Pictures can be found on our website: Troop 824

Please share your websites and pictures so we can see what you guys are doing. We can all learn from pictures.

Thanks!

Craig in north Phoenix
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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