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#165797 - 01/31/09 03:00 AM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: dougwalkabout]
OilfieldCowboy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 40
Loc: WY/AK
Where were the Scout Masters like you when I was in Scouts?

We just had a long line of "Scout Masters" pushing their kids through the ranks getting them on the fast track to Eagle, the rest of us just got lost in the shuffle...

It isn't just the boys that make the Boy Scouts, the caliber of leader is what the Troop is judged by. Sounds to me like you have the makings of a world class Troop.

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#166043 - 02/02/09 01:23 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: OilfieldCowboy]
enolson484 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 20
Loc: SW Missouri
I'm dealing with that right now. There're quite a few Scouts getting their Eagle that, in my opinion, haven't really done much to deserve it. There's been a decided course change however, with the new group of parents that has stepped up over the last year and slowly, but surely, the BSA standards are being enforced. Of course we're meeting resistance from the old guard parents that liked it the old way. My better half and I are also the new Advancement Chairs. She's fairly easy going, and a lot of people mistake her for being a pushover. What they don't see is her iron backbone. She's had to put a Marine in check, after all, and I've deserved it each and every time! So, I think the old guard will be in for a quite a surprise. And it won't be anything malicious, it'll just be an enforcement of the standards and the BSA standards really aren't all that difficult. They take time, effort, and work. A foreign concept to some folks, unfortunately.
There's a Troop Committee meeting tonight and I've heard some rumblings that there are some old guard parents who feel the Wilderness Survival package is too difficult and will be too challenging for the Scouts and, my favorite, they resent not being allowed to "approve" the classes and training prior to implementation. Okay, fine, if the subject comes up tonight, I will gladly turn over my material to the parents that are qualified to critique it. They will have had to have graduated from either a military or nationally recognized survival school as well as taught the subject matter. I'm not trying to be mean, but I resent having those with no experience or knowledge attempt to critique my experience and knowledge. In other words, I don't do it to you, please don't do it to me.
Understand I am not trying to be confrontational or malicious, but please try to understand the mindset I'm dealing with here...


Edited by enolson484 (02/02/09 01:45 PM)

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#166048 - 02/02/09 01:41 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yeah, I've experienced that before, and not just in Scouts. I suspect the propensity for manipulation is unavoidable. Sad to say, once the leadership has been infected, it is nigh impossible to get them to change their ways, and the bottom line is the kids always suffer. Many of them who will have a bad or at best mediocre experience with it will not return to perpetuate what was once a great idea. Nowadays I see so much of this "non-exclusion" policy crap, where no one fails and everyone gets to participate, regardless of ability or interest, it totally turns me off from participating.

Even with mandated programs, like State Hunter Education, you will find those who approach it with less than desirable enthusiasm. The state's rules for training are well defined, and yet still you will have instructors who insist on cutting corners, going off-topic, or teaching something off-standard. I had one instructor at a jamboree actually tell me that the ethics prescribed in the workbook the state published were wrong.
How can you be a certified instructor when you disagree with the course material the kids are being certified by? Then again, how many teachers have I had to endure in public school who tried to teach me something other than the facts? I guess I shouldn't be so surprised.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#166222 - 02/03/09 03:36 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: benjammin]
enolson484 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 20
Loc: SW Missouri
Okay. I am chagrined. I am humbled. And I am so very, very, surprised! Perhaps it was because of the ice storm which has just pummeled our area, or a mass attack of common sense, but the old guard were not only receptive to the Wilderness Survival package, but very enthusiastic! I actually had a few of the more touchy-feely parents approach me about some private instruction! Wow! The majority of the Scouts are pumped up, the parents are pumped up, apparently some Cub packs that are about to Cross Over have heard about it and our Troop Recruitment is climbing... now I have to deliver. I'm confident in my abilities and skills to teach, but I always get butterflies right before I go into a course. The best thing about this turn of events is that, now, I'm even more motivated to teach these boys than ever before!
_________________________
E. N. Olson

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#166223 - 02/03/09 03:39 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Definitely the best of luck with this!!! Maybe it was the situation with the ice storm and people realizing how quickly conditions change.

Either way, sounds like a green light for you. Waiting to hear how it all goes!
_________________________
"I reject your reality and substitute my own..." - Adam Savage / Mythbusters

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#166244 - 02/03/09 05:50 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
airballrad Offline
Gear Junkie
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 248
Loc: Gulf Coast Florida, USA
Suhweet!!!

...Umm, so you're gonna share your notes after you do this, right? wink

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#166262 - 02/03/09 06:55 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: airballrad]
enolson484 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 20
Loc: SW Missouri
Oh yeah, this will be an ongoing project to the forum. I'll also be passing out course critique sheets to the students (Scouts and parents), so each class and hands-on event can get a drubbing and I can tailor these specific classes more towards Scouts and less towards adults. Remember, I'm used to teaching Uncle Sam's Misguided Children equipped with firearms and explosives. While my Scouts may really want that kind of instruction, the parents might not be too keen on that, regardless of my personal enthusiasm. I'm also planning on some photo intensity to document the "dirt" training. Another intention, and as time allows, I'd like to post the actual classes and powerpoint presentations to the forum, once I figure out how, open to all for criticisms and improvements.
_________________________
E. N. Olson

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#166273 - 02/03/09 07:25 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Well, I am glad it worked out for you in the end. I would also like to see the written material. I do not participate in scouts, but my bagpipe instructor is a scout master locally; maybe I could pass the idea off to him, and get an instructor slot!!! laugh
_________________________
my adventures

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#166289 - 02/03/09 08:53 PM Re: TEACHING SCOUTS ABOUT SURVIVAL [Re: enolson484]
KenK Offline
"Be Prepared"
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/26/04
Posts: 2208
Loc: NE Wisconsin
Originally Posted By: enolson484
some old guard parents who feel the Wilderness Survival package is too difficult and will be too challenging for the Scouts


There's a big difference between challenging and dangerous. Scouts LOVE a challenge, so long as there is some kind of support structure (pep talks, additional training, "lifeguards")when things don't go well.

Good luck to you on revamping the troop. It can be veeeeerrrryyyy difficult, but the rewards can be absolutely life-changing for the boys.

Ken

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