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#163535 - 01/17/09 03:26 AM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: scafool]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Yes, and he was hot on the tail of future ace and famed canadian pioneer pilot 'Wop' May ( first use of an airplane to track a 'criminal' the enigmatic Albert Johnson, aka Mad Trapper of Rat River.)But on that first sortie May was in a total panic using evasive manuevers when a simple straight on escape at full throttle would have left the slower Fokker far behind his Sopwith Camel.
And then too, Richtofen was still suffering from a headwound after being shot down by a observer gunner in a RE8, the very machine many of his victories were made against.The Baron was suffering from the phenomenon of focusing only on his quarry, blind to his position and flew right into a single lucky .303 round from a australian machinegun on the ground.
So again, you learn and relearn. Sometimes the best lesson is to stay on the ground when not 100% as I am tonight (lousy cold season.)


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (01/17/09 03:31 AM)

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#163536 - 01/17/09 03:51 AM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Oh, sorry.
I went and deleted that post because I thought it might have seemed rude.
If I remember the comment was, "But the Red Baron died."

The pilot who shot the Baron down had the name Brown, right?

You are right about Wop May being a famous bush pilot. He is far more famous for that than narrowly escaping being killed by the infamous Manfred Von Richtofen.

(I don't think you need to put quotes around Wop May's first name.)

Our famous WWI ace was Billy Bishop.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163543 - 01/17/09 05:14 AM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: scafool]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Captain Roy Brown is officially credited with downing Richtofen.
Forensic investigation has pretty well proven otherwise. Brown was a very sick man, flying combat with an ulcer being 'treated' with milk and whiskey.His own report states he 'fired a short burst on a red triplane at distance." The triplane continued on it's pursuit of May for some time. Richtofen passed directly in front of several australian gunners before making a very ubrupt crash landing. Richtofen was pulled from the wreckage with facial injuries and a single .303 wound that entered his right side and tumbled in a mortal path( .303 rounds were made with hollow noses under the copper jacket to induce tumbling, much like the later 5.56/.223) A man with such a wound would have mere seconds to live, which was the case, Manfred muttering what some think was 'kaput.'
The tides of war were going badly for the british RFC, so Brown was quickly credited as much for morale and propaganda.The lesson again, it is the man. You look at these three pilot's careers, all had periods of great competency and periods when they did not: May was a few seconds from becoming # 81, Richtofen was killed through a combination of physical disability and becoming locked on one goal deep in enemy territory and Brown managed to survive the war apparently knowing when to 'back off' and not wind up ramming a slower plane with decreased reflexes (one reason he broke off his attack.)
This is the stuff books on performance and technology seldom look at, which our pilot does.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (01/17/09 05:23 AM)

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#163546 - 01/17/09 05:32 AM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
You might enjoy looking through the Alberta Aviation Museum Chris, if you ever get around this way.
http://albertaaviationmuseum.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=47&Itemid=41

(They have added a few planes since they took those photos.)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#163550 - 01/17/09 09:51 AM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: unimogbert]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Good advice, although from what I remember of the water landing briefing they give, you aren't supposed to wear your shoes onto the ramp/life raft. I'd still try to take them with me though.
_________________________
A gentleman should always be able to break his fast in the manner of a gentleman where so ever he may find himself.--Good Omens

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#163554 - 01/17/09 01:36 PM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: OrangeJoe]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1201
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: OrangeJoe
I wonder how many people pay attention to the instructions that come after:

"In the unlikely event of a water landing..."
I think this event largely illustrates something I had noticed before: that although with some incidents you get plenty of warning that you are going to crash, in many cases it happens suddenly. In this case the captain had time to tell the passengers to brace, but not to explain what "brace" means.

So you need to pay attention the first time the safety briefing is given because it may not be repeated. I suspect some of the people who ignore it, don't realise this.
_________________________
Quality is addictive.

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#163559 - 01/17/09 02:19 PM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Eric Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Iowa
Sorry to poke holes in a theory but the FBW systems on airbus airplanes do not know how to ditch. They are very good at keeping the airplane in a flyable condition (not stalled, not an unusual attitude, etc.) but their are no flight control modes or programs for this situation. This one goes straight to pilot skills, a pretty sturdy airframe and a whole lot of good luck.

- Eric
_________________________
You are never beaten until you admit it. - - General George S. Patton


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#163561 - 01/17/09 02:49 PM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: scafool]
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: scafool
The pilot who shot the Baron down had the name Brown, right?


And all these years I thought it was Snoopy... actually, being Charlie Brown's dog, might his full name have been Snoopy Brown?
_________________________

- Ron

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#163562 - 01/17/09 03:23 PM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: Be_Prepared]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I was associated with a R/C club many years past.
One member built a stunning Triplane.
This other member just looked at it with a gleem in his eye.
A few meetings later he had a flying doghouse with snoopy on top.
And it outflew the tripe, who's owner was very cautious with his creation.


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#163564 - 01/17/09 03:36 PM Re: Airplane Down In The Hudson River [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Be_Prepared Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 530
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
I was associated with a R/C club many years past.
One member built a stunning Triplane.
This other member just looked at it with a gleem in his eye.
A few meetings later he had a flying doghouse with snoopy on top.
And it outflew the tripe, who's owner was very cautious with his creation.


ok Chris... were you behind the controls for the "stunning Triplane" or the "flying Doghouse"?
_________________________

- Ron

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