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#160311 - 12/28/08 07:01 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Montanero]
Desperado Offline

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Nope, 95B20-B4. I thought I was going to be a cop, I was basically heavily armed scout with wheels.

We had an 18D that went 95B because he couldn't jump anymore due to an ear issue. (or something like that)
He was in our second HMMWV when we kicked off on 24FEB91 and turned east. Our rigs looked like something from "Sanford & Son" with all the crap inside and out. He was packing a small hopital, and some goodies an 18C he knew gave us. I had as much "BANG" as I could find and two rifles to deal with. The driver had the 203 and the gunner had the M2. The 18D had rigged an M60 on the door like you see mounts made for now. We were definitely a cross between "Rat Patrol" and "Sanford & Son". Probably the only low rider HMMWV's in the army.

Edited by Desperado (12/28/08 07:01 PM)
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.


#160314 - 12/28/08 07:51 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Pete_Kenney Offline

Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 56
Loc: Sylvania, OH
Over thirty years ago, I passed kidney stones twice about a year apart. Then I ran across Adell Davis’ Let’s Get Well (can still be found on Amazon.com) and it said there were many types of stones; but, the most common could be dissolved if the acidity of the urine were increased and this could be achieved if one took Magnesium Oxide (the best form of Mg for bodily absorption) and Vitamin B6. After that second stone, I could sense a presence (unpassed stones?) in the kidney. So I bought small bottles of magnesium oxide and B6 and experimented—the presence went away. When the bottles were empty and I did not purchase more, the presence came back. So I took these and other vitamins regularly for a long time. About ten years later money was tight and I did not buy vitamins—the stones came back. Again about 3 years ago I stopped taking vitamins and kidney stones came back. I also have noticed that I do not get leg cramps when I take Mg and B6.

A web site I found recently listed the types of stones as:
1-3. Dicalcium phosphate, Monocalcium phosphate, & Tri-calcium phosphate: Also causes common arthritis, hardening of arteries, and spurs. Eliminate or largely decrease phosphate-rich food such as meat, breads, cereals, pastas, and carbonated drinks. Increase fruit and vegetables and milk 2%, take magnesium oxide (300mg/day) and Vitamin B6 (250 mg/day). Drink a lot of water.
4. Oxalate: Common cause of lower back pain. Stones caused by oxalic acid in regular Orange Pekoe tea including iced tea (15.6 mg oxalic acid per tea bags). Also eliminate cocoa drinks and chocolate of all kinds
5. Uric acid: Also causes gout and arthritis. Meat produces urea and its by-products. It is also highly acid-forming which requires more calcium from living vegetable sources to neutralize these acids.
6. Cysteine: Sulfur containing.

You probably already have figured this next thought out: You said the Codeine masks (as to completely suppresses) the pain. I would never take something to completely override the pain because if a stone completely blocked the ureter, then the kidney could become damaged. The amount of pain signals if immediate surgery is needed. I have found that if the stone is moving (though seemingly at a glacial rate) one can follow its path (pain).

If you ever completely pass a stone (you’ll know when that happens), get it analyzed for composition.

Another web site I found recommends the phosphoric acid in colas. It may work but there is no real nutrition involved in this treatment.

As to a hot bath that LED mentioned to help with the discomfort of passing a stone: I usually use the shower instead—but the water bills skyrocket. When I pinched a nerve lately between my shoulder blades, I used a hot shower and also a heating pad—found an extra large one at Walmart.

So it is not what to take when one gets a stone (wherever you are located); but rather, getting good nutrition continually so the stone does not form in the first place.

To sidetrack this topic just a bit, I have found the site http://www.doctoryouself.com to be most useful and interesting. I am a 61-year-old graduate student in engineering. A while back, whenever I moved, it felt like I was moving through water—my limbs felt heavy. Further, my mind had the same heavy feeling and the dissertation research was not proceeding at a good rate. I remembered B12 was supposed to help the mind and it produced a day and night difference in my attitude in just a day or so. However, there was still some lingering depression. In searching the doctoryourself.com I found that niacin (B3) is good for many psychological disorders including depression. Further, it lowers blood pressure. Why treat a symptom with a counter symptom producing medicine (i.e., allopathic medicine) when the problem is a nutritional deficiency?—although the pharmasutical companies do not make money. This particular web site uses medical and nutritional research literature to document its statements. After taking nonflushing niacin I felt even better and there was a new spring in my step.

In searching out spinal stenosis (http://www.doctoryourself.com/stenosis.html ) for my advisor’s wife, I found it most interesting that Vitamin C can be used to mask the pain of those with terminal illness leaving at least their minds clear to the end (search on “One of the biggest surprises in analgesia occurred during the 1970's in Scotland at the Vale of Leven Hospital.”). And a person with incapacitating sciatica that the doctors said he had to learn to live with “grabbed the chain saw, and set to the task of cutting up a load of slab wood that I’d neglected for the last three months” after taking megadoses of Vitamine C for four days (search on “In 2004, I was disabled to the point of being unable to put on my own socks and underwear”).

Edited by Pete_Kenney (12/28/08 08:16 PM)

#160318 - 12/28/08 09:33 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Pete_Kenney]

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1828

some good advice here..i have been told that the stones that were recovered from filtered urine were oxalic of some sort and the common ones..and the first time i had this problem i was sent home with a bottle of pain meds and told to drink alot of water.i fact the Dr said i had a good heart and that would be the best bet..i was back the next day and got an IV flush which worked like a charm..untill now the problem was a "maybe".after kicking the table legs in the exam waiting for the RN it turned into "survival issue"..my plans up to now were meds,water,lots of activity which seems to help move the stone--you can't just lay down--and wait..now i'll want to ramp up my first aid kit with something to help flush those damm things out..
when i was in that room waiting i was thinking "if this hit back in Beartrack Lake i would be in a world of hurt with no help"--when i see my Dr next week i'll do a follow-up post and let you know what he said---and yes--i drink alot of tea--

#160321 - 12/28/08 10:24 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2809
Loc: La-USA
Have you tried researching any Native American or Wilderness/frontier medical treatments involving plants??

I'll look around and see if I can find any references.
The best luck is what you make yourself!

#160342 - 12/29/08 02:46 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: wildman800]

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1828
Wildman..i'm a strong believer in modern medicine.a very good buddy of mine,an Ex Marine,college friend from the 70's,best men at each other weddings,so on is not. he tried to treat his diabeties with "natural" holistic methods.the result was a massive stroke.he also did the "i'm hard,this headache will go away" stuff with his family. i was at his bedside at the VA 4 or 5 nites a week for most of the fall and now he is in a nursing home getting rehab.the only bit of light in all this is that the VA said his CVA was related to diabeties and diabeties is a result of his exposure to agent orange in the Nam so now he gets a %100 service connected rateing and $3000 a month.but damm---
sorry about the run on story..i was too up close and personal with the subject this week..

#160355 - 12/29/08 04:07 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
marduk Offline

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
Good explanation of hows, whys, prevention, and treatment: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/kidney-stones/DS00282

In older, unenlightened days, we would send folks home from the ER with a strainer and a recommendation to drink beer (provided volume and anesthesia).
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"

#160383 - 12/29/08 04:31 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: ]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Keep well hydrated, watch what you eat, and have pain meds handy if needed
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

#160386 - 12/29/08 05:42 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Stu]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 788
Loc: wellington, fl
Kidney stones form in the renal pelvis, where the plumbing diameter is pretty big. If they come loose, they have to pass through the ureter, where the plumbing space is pretty small. Probability of passage is related to size of stone, as described here . Kidney stones are shaped like broken glass, and poke holes in the ureter, causing some of the pain. The real pain-pain worse than most heart attacks, 10 on the scale of 10-is caused by the stone blocking the ureter, which spasms and causes renal colic. Conservative treatment involves pain management and iv fluids, which relax the patient and maybe the ureter, and help flush the stone through. If the stone doesn't flush the resulting pain can be incapacitating, and resulting damage to the kidney can be severe. All the stuff suggested to decrease the likelihood of stone formation is good information. The IV fluids and parenteral analgesics and antinausea drugs needed to do this probably don't belong in a first aid kit, tho I have seen them there. An obstructed ureter is a surgical emergency, and toughing it out is not an option. Cat scans can identify the number and size of the stones that are sitting in your kidney, and an obliging doc might prescribe one for you to help assess the risk before a major trip. Otherwise, this would be a good time for medevac. A kidney is a terrible thing to waste.
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

#160393 - 12/29/08 06:17 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: nursemike]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yep, wife had a stone once, and said it was far worse than labor pains even. Said she would rather go through a C-section without any anethesia than to go through another stone like the one she had.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#160400 - 12/29/08 07:03 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: nursemike]
KG2V Offline


Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Yep - luckly, as this is like my 3rd stone, I know that the pain being intermitant and moving down is a "good thing" - and I know to get to the ER if it gets bad. This one seems like it will pass. That said, I have an IVP Tuesday to make sure things are working

The last one was cylindrical in shape, 5mm x 20mm. It stuck in a bad spot, but was letting fluid around it, so they waited for it to move about 3 inchs down - then they were able to go in with a laser and break it up. Hurt like heck for 2 days afterwards, but I was happy to have it done, as one 30 minute attack was worse than those 2 days

Oh - and I can't decide which is worse - Gall stones, or kidney stones. I've had both, both are BAD, just different.

My take on getting one in the woods - this is a vaild time to call for a Medivac if you can - and if you do have opiates, and the person has no know problems with them, it would be a good thing (my urologist handed me a srcipt after the surgery, said 'fill this, keep it on the shelf, in case you get another - take and call me')

Edited by KG2V_was_kc2ixe (12/29/08 07:07 PM)
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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