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#160277 - 12/28/08 05:34 AM do it your self kidney stone treatment???
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1838
Loc: MINNESOTA
this is a post to pick the brains of the medical types here.you don't need and i don't want you to give me information,just a link to a place where i can get some good info on what to do and what to have avalible to treat a kidney stone attack in a wilderness/survival situation.
i could Google this but i know i would have to plow thru pages to come up with anything..heres the story.i have a history of stones and this week i was at my local hospital
passing one again.luck was with me as i knew what was going on and the Vets Hospital where i retired from is only minutes away .but in the 25 minutes or so it took to get signed in and have the RN give me the once over and the Dr to show up..it was the weekend the Vets is not 911
and does not have a full staff..i was in alot of pain.
things moved along fast after the Dr orders and i knew the RN's and was able to chat and joke a bit to take the edge off.i'll have a follow-up with my Dr in clinic next week and i'll run this past him also..it of course struck me---what would i do on a wilderness canoe trip if this hit?..the Codeine tabs from my Dr would only mask the pain and in the past have not helped much.could i arf down a bunch of those and hop up and down to jar them loose?
i don't think so..hit the 911 on my spot only to pass the stone on my own--sorry guy's--false alarm...at the VA i got a IV of fluid with some really impressive pain meds but of course am not going to be able to hang a bag from a tree and give myself a IV on some remote lake.
anyway the last few days have been a wake-up call on the subject of stones and the pain involved.any ideas about links or whatever??

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#160280 - 12/28/08 05:44 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
CANOEDOGS,

I built a home for a urologist here in my neighborhood. I will probably see him sometime tomorrow. I will bring the general idea up, but I bet he tells me to carry a SAT phone and call for help.

I am sure that is what his lawyer and insurance company would want him to say. More later.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#160283 - 12/28/08 06:14 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Desperado]
JohnE Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 601
Loc: Southern Cal
Not a doctor, don't play one on television, just an EMT.

If it were me, I would drink a lot of water, take whatever pain meds I had and try to urinate while laying down in an effort to get the stone moving.

That's what I would do, I am not advocating that anyone else does this.

JohnE
_________________________
JohnE

"and all the lousy little poets
comin round
tryin' to sound like Charlie Manson"

The Future/Leonard Cohen


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#160284 - 12/28/08 06:24 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: JohnE]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
I've never even thought of this.

I have a wilderness medicine text, put out by the Wilderness Med society. I'll scrounge it up in a few days (it's in MI, I'm in CA) and see what it says, if anything.

Meanwhile, I'll see if I can find anything online.

Any chance you know what type of stone you tend to get? Some are related with diet, and maybe planning accordingly can decrease the chance of getting one.


Edited by MDinana (12/28/08 06:29 AM)

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#160286 - 12/28/08 07:38 AM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: CANOEDOGS]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
Of course this won't help in the woods, but I read from those who've suffered the experience that sitting in a hot bath really helps alleviate the pain. This was on advice from thier physician.

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#160291 - 12/28/08 12:51 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: LED]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Oh, that's an idea that just hurts - I know, I got a stone last night - luckly, I'm already on pain killers for my leg, so it's a "smile" and wait till I can see the doc next week

Hopefully, it'll pass before then
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#160305 - 12/28/08 05:10 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Desperado]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Originally Posted By: Desperado
CANOEDOGS,

I built a home for a urologist here in my neighborhood. I will probably see him sometime tomorrow. I will bring the general idea up, but I bet he tells me to carry a SAT phone and call for help.

I am sure that is what his lawyer and insurance company would want him to say. More later.


Saw the doc and I was right, first thing he said was SAT phone. He then spoke of copious amounts of water and prescription pain killers if one had to self-rescue.

His last bit of wisdom was: "Don't worry, this too shall pass".

Sorry I can't be of more help.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#160306 - 12/28/08 05:57 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Desperado]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1472
Loc: North Carolina
This brings up a host of other possible issues as well. Is there a good, comprehensive medical book for treating yourself for more than just first aid? I have heard good and bad about the book "where there is no doctor". Any medical types ever read it? What do you think? I have had quite extensive training in wound management and treating combat type wounds and injuries, but little in how to find the right meds when I am traveling in a third world country or how to use them. I am often on my own in countries where I do not speak the language and the medical care is suspicious at best. Any thoughts guys?

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#160307 - 12/28/08 06:09 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Montanero]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
I noticed the location of North Carolina. Is that kinda near Fayetteville by chance??

Best thing I have done in the past is get all the shots in advance, and talk to a doctor that can research the region. Then I kindly ask him for advance scripts of anything he might find useful, along with good written instructions as to what's for what.

I also start taking Pepto twice a day three days in advance of leaving, continuing until three days after I return. It seems to coat the tummy and let the bugs slide on thru.

You could also make friends with an SF 18D (Medic). I promise they can steer you in the right way.
_________________________
I do the things that I must, and really regret, are unfortunately necessary.

RIP OBG

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#160309 - 12/28/08 06:37 PM Re: do it your self kidney stone treatment??? [Re: Desperado]
Montanero Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1472
Loc: North Carolina
I live in Fayetteville. I spent 24 years in the Army , 21 in Special Forces. They have the SF medic handbook, but this is not a handbook for the untrained. I usually carry Cipro and Imodium.

My 18D friends have helped, mostly with knowledge and training.

Were you an "18" Desperado?

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