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#157795 - 12/09/08 08:39 PM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: aardwolfe]
Doug_Ritter Offline

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Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2197
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#157799 - 12/09/08 09:08 PM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Doug_Ritter]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
I think that makes the point about your basic survival gear being on you.

Signal Mirror.
Torch.
Beacon.

They would have been rescued a lot quicker.
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#157814 - 12/10/08 12:12 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Roarmeister Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 960
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
A bit more information has come to light - I'm quoting only part of the article.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/12/09/7688681-cp.html

Quote:
"We heard a hard metallic boom and the front engine quit," co-pilot Edwards-Neil said in an interview in the hospital room the two men shared on Tuesday.

"Two or three minutes later, we heard another boom, then it was really, 'Yeah, we're going down.' "

The pair had five to eight minutes to prepare for a crash landing - just enough time to put on their survival suits, send a mayday message, and aim for a crash landing next to a pan of ice, where the pair hoped to wait out a rescue.

Edwards-Neil said he braced for impact by holding his door open, ready to get out of the plane before it sank.

The windshield smashed on impact, and forced his door shut, but he managed to stick his head far enough out of the window and smash the glass with his back.

The water was to the roof in five seconds, he said.

Fortunately, one wing of the plane was resting on an ice floe. The ice was strong enough for both to walk across the wing to the ice before the plane disappeared into the freezing water.

That left the two men alone, under a half moon and a darkening sky, with no food, shelter, heat or flares.

Quote:
Master Cpl. Julien Gauthier, a search and rescue technician who helped hoist the two men from the fishing boat onto a Cormorant helicopter on Monday, said their actions were "textbook examples" of an intelligent response to an emergency.

"It's what they teach in survival classes," he said.


To those who think that having your fire-starting gear with you would have been a good asset in this case - I ask you one question - Besides your buddy's clothes what other fuel do you have that you can burn sufficiently to increase your chances of survival? Last time I checked, ice floes don't burn very well and they don't have a lot of vegetation! smile smile smile

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#157818 - 12/10/08 12:34 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Roarmeister]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
"To those who think that having your fire-starting gear with you would have been a good asset in this case - I ask you one question - Besides your buddy's clothes what other fuel do you have that you can burn sufficiently to increase your chances of survival? Last time I checked, ice floes don't burn very well and they don't have a lot of vegetation! smile smile smile"

True you can't burn ice and water very well but the blast match and the silva matchcase stuffed full of crushed up wetfire tinder (which can be lit on ice or water) would give me a nice little hand warmer for a little while aside from being completely useless. Every little bit of heat counts as long as you can get it, it may buy you some extra time.



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#157820 - 12/10/08 12:44 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Roarmeister]
Doug_Ritter Offline

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Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2197
Originally Posted By: Roarmeister
Edwards-Neil said he braced for impact by holding his door open, ready to get out of the plane before it sank.

The windshield smashed on impact, and forced his door shut, but he managed to stick his head far enough out of the window and smash the glass with his back.

The water was to the roof in five seconds, he said.

[/quote]

A few notes:

First: Either they didn't listen closely in class, OR they hadn't received good instruction (or never attended or read any good ditching info). It is impossible to "hold" the door open in a ditching. That's the reason we teach that you either block the door open with something (a book of approach plates is often a readily available choice) or lock it open (on those aircraft that allow for this).

Second: With a high-wing aircraft (or inverted low-wing), you basically have to wait for the water to enter to equalize pressure and then you can exit, or you have to smash the window and exit that way. SOP. By wearing inherently buoyant survival suits, they all but eliminated the ability to exit underwater. A bad idea that's doubly bad with a high wing aircraft.

These guys were very lucky. They appear to have been Darwin nominees that survived despite everything.
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#157825 - 12/10/08 01:52 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Doug_Ritter]
CANOEDOGS Offline
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Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

as just an aside--it looks like the goverment search had given up but a private fishing vessel burning up time and fuel kept at it--

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#157831 - 12/10/08 02:06 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Roarmeister]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...eight minutes to prepare for a crash landing - just enough time to put on their survival suits..."

Wow, that is amazing. Two people putting survival suits on in the cockpit of a dieing light aircraft in eight minutes!!!
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#157834 - 12/10/08 02:10 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: Doug_Ritter]
OldBaldGuy Offline
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Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
When I studied the manual on the US Army U-6 (de Havilland Beaver), it said to jetison the doors prior to a water landing (it also said to jump out prior to the aircraft contacting the water). But not all aircraft have that feature...
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#157837 - 12/10/08 02:30 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Doug_Ritter Offline

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Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2197
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
"...eight minutes to prepare for a crash landing - just enough time to put on their survival suits..."

Wow, that is amazing. Two people putting survival suits on in the cockpit of a dieing light aircraft in eight minutes!!!


Unlikely they donned them from scratch. Typically, with these Gumby style suits, the pilot sits in the seat with the suit on, but rolled down to the waist. In an emergency you pull the top of the suit on and finish zipping it off. Difficult enough, believe me!
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#157838 - 12/10/08 02:33 AM Re: Survival in the Arctic - Additional Info [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2197
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
When I studied the manual on the US Army U-6 (de Havilland Beaver), it said to jetison the doors prior to a water landing (it also said to jump out prior to the aircraft contacting the water). But not all aircraft have that feature...


Pretty rare to have jettisonable doors in civilian GA aircraft. As for jumping out prior to impact, not sure I'd recommend that, personally.
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