Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#157245 - 12/05/08 04:31 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: Blast]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
While I can't hid my preparedness from my co-workers, (hell I make coffee on my desk with a French Press and heat the water with a Camping Gaz stove), I don't advertise my stockpile of ammo, food & water at home.

In my past travels, I've spent several weeks where the community was left to its own devices for food and water after a natural disaster. For the most part everyone worked communally for the benefit of us all. I remember hauling water and making fire to boil it and taking my ration, giving some to families with kids. I didn't tell anyone I started the mess with 100 gallons of water stocked away and ton of provisions. Taking my ration didn't raise any questions and giving some away endeared me to families. When a family had a sick child or unable to get food, they would find a few nyquils and cough drops or a can of beans mysteriously show up at their door.

My current neighborhood reality is that I am acquainted with but not chummy with my neighbors. I'm prepared for a long stay but plan is not to hunker at my house during a disaster if I can avoid it. Meaning, if my area is hammered and I can stay with someone out of the zone, I am putting my family there. Having food stores is great, making my family safe and comfortable is the priority.

_________________________
Don't just survive. Thrive.

Top
#157253 - 12/05/08 05:18 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: Nishnabotna]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
"Maybe this is where barter comes in?"

Well, yes, I guess it does depend on how pretty the neighbor's daughter is. I will always have something to share, just depends on what is being put on the table I reckon. LOL

I don't suppose anyone in need is going to have much else that is going to interest me if things go bad. Otherwise why would they be coming to me in the first place?

Really for many the question will be how effectively can you hold off an army of desperate people once they discover you have something they want/need and are willing to kill you for?

But this is really getting rhetorical. Most likely the situation we are going to be faced with will be acute, severe, and not likely just something we can sit and wait out.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#157255 - 12/05/08 05:30 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: benjammin]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Originally Posted By: benjammin
The ant and the grasshopper...

What they don't know about my stash won't cause me any sleepless nights. If they come a calling, I will tell them the truth and say I've nothing to spare for them. It may seem cold, but all I gotta do is picture my wife and/or kids cold and hungry because I gave their food and clothes away to someone else, and that settles that idea but quick.

You draw the line at meeting your responsibilities. If you have an abundance, then go ahead and share, but I cannot predict the future so well, and who's to say that in a crisis situation, two years of food and water stock would be required to get by.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. You put those supplies up for a reason; you don't change your mind just because some fool outside your door is suffering needlessly. You make a plan, you stick to it, and keep the outside factors outside where they belong. You wanna feed the homeless or the unprepared, make separate provisions for them outside of your own needs, and when those supplies are gone, feel good that you were able to help out as much as you did.

That, my friends, is life.

Benjammin,
Good post. My personal rule is if you need to shelter at my place, don't come empty handed (with a few exteptions) and be prepared to do what needs doing.
If others want to store supplies for future use at my place they are welcome to.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

Top
#157257 - 12/05/08 05:31 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: MichaelJ]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
While I do understand the innate desire for self-preservation in times of crisis, my personal philosophy is that there is strength in numbers. Relevant to this topic I believe that an organized and cooperative group has a better chance of pulling through an extended critical situation. For example, you might want your neighboor who's a dentist to be around you when that molar gets infected.

So the question is: Would I share my family's supplies with others if a blizzard disrupted normal life for a few days or even a week or two? Yes, because that's how I was raised and educated. And I'm sure that's what many of us on this forum would do as well. That's why we prepare, isn't it?

Should I do more to get folks in the neighborhood to think about preparedness? Sure. Will I hold it against them if they don't? No, 'cause that would be against my personal set of ethics.

I think the intent of the original post was to consider the ethics of long term survival in a situation where society has failed in a significant manner. Frankly I don't think any of us knows how we would react in that situation until it happens. But I would intend to act in the manner of the hero of Pat Frank's 'Alas Babylon' and help my neighbors get by until the cavalry shows up.

This op ed piece is not a criticism of how others see the situation; I'm too old to bash others' beliefs systems. I just thought that my beliefs have merit too.





_________________________
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

Top
#157260 - 12/05/08 05:53 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: Andy]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Andy,

I can appreciate your magnanimity, but I will reiterate the same question as others have posed earlier:

Would you be willing to take what your children need and give it to others? If it was between you feeding your child for another week or you feeding other people's children for a day, and that's all there was left, which way would you go? If it was between you keeping your child warm till help arrived, or you letting someone else keep their child warm during that time, which one would you choose?

Just assume that you only have enough to take care of one or the other, not both. Because one neighbor kid that you help quickly becomes another dozen that need help, which then become a hundred, and how much of what you have do you give up for the common good, when the others were not so forward thinking when they had the time and oppportunity to prepare as you did and elected not to, mabye because they figured you would be there to help them?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#157272 - 12/05/08 06:43 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: benjammin]
Andy Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
Ben,

As in all things in life, ethics can be situational. In my case my kids are grown and live apart from me and the DW. I might be more likely to support the little kids on my block at some degradation to my well being because they will be around a lot longer than I will.

But I see the validity of your question. Twenty years ago I might have taken the your approach to ensure the well being of my children. Thank God that situation never arose.

At this stage in my life I'm not sure I'd be all that happy about surviving a situtation that would call for such extreme measures. Especially if it meant that others, that I could have helped, suffered to enable that survival. But obviously I have some interest in self-preservation or I wouldn't be spouting off here!

It was my beloved third grade teacher who read us the story about "Stone Soup" who shaped my point of view of community.

Take care, stay safe.


Top
#157273 - 12/05/08 06:54 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: Andy]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4018
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yes, I am in the same boat there. My kids are gone to college, so it is just me and the wife and our new puppy that I'd have to consider.

It would be much easier to plan for if I knew there would be enough like minded folks near me to compensate for those who can't see beyond today. As it is, I try to come up with some balance between managing for myself and providing for those in need, regardless of the cause. Not everything that I stock would be hoarded either, and so I suspect it is with many here.

Still, there is a line that must, inevitably, be drawn. After that, I guess it becomes every man for himself, kinda like being the best swimmer in a group trapped in a maelstrom.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

Top
#157275 - 12/05/08 07:02 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: benjammin]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
There's a line between charity and foolishness. It may be different for different people, but it's important for everyone to recognise where it is. Don't think that I'm going to shoot the starving kid in the street because he dared ask for some food, but when the 3 blocks around me all show up in the morning wanting to split my pantry between all of them so they can all have a few bites for breakfast I might lose my cool just a bit.

Top
#157286 - 12/05/08 08:28 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: MichaelJ]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2148
Loc: Bucks County PA
Quid Pro Quo. Gas for food. food for gas, etc. harsh but that's the case for me.

Top
#157287 - 12/05/08 08:43 PM Re: What about your neighbor? [Re: MartinFocazio]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
Exactly, Barter or work for it.
_________________________
Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
Head Cat Herder

Top
Page 2 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >



Moderator:  MartinFocazio, Tyber 
July
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31
Who's Online
0 registered (), 291 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
albusgrammaticus, johnmarl, AshikurAB, tomar15, Bbbriggs
5207 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Do You Have a Firstaid Kit to Spare?
by Jeanette_Isabelle
Today at 12:16 AM
Help for novel research.Bugging out from Manhattan
by LesSnyder
Yesterday at 11:38 PM
What NOT to do in a disaster
by dougwalkabout
Yesterday at 03:31 AM
Boil-Water Advisory
by hikermor
07/21/17 11:38 PM
Inexpensive knives, ver. 2.0
by Russ
07/21/17 10:32 PM
EMP
by Russ
07/21/17 09:41 PM
Animal-Caused Death Stats
by Phaedrus
07/21/17 01:24 PM
Hot Springs Mammoth Site
by Phaedrus
07/20/17 07:16 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.