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#156010 - 11/22/08 05:14 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: Arney]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
As someone that grew up in Yorba Linda (or, "Yuppie Linda" as we called it in high school), I can understand the road clogging. Essentiall YL is built upon a hill. YL Blvd is the "upper" main highway, and Orangethorpe/Esperanza is the "lower" main road. They run East/west. All the residential streets run up or down hill (that'd be north or south) off these 2 thoroughfaires. Truth be told, they're both only 2 lanes on either side. So it's very easy to see how the residential road would clog quickly, and the main highways even quicker. To make matters worse, YL Blvd is divided with concrete islands. It's also the road closer to the hill crests, that were burning.

Seems that reverse 911 could have helped if it'd be set quicker. But it also just might be poor planning in setting up the city for an evacuation.

I'll see if I can set up some pics from my parents and friends later.

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#156326 - 11/25/08 02:05 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: MDinana]
Jakam
Unregistered


Now Round Two Begins-

Rains Start today, mud slides predicted..

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#156329 - 11/25/08 02:42 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: ]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Jakam
Rains Start today, mud slides predicted..

I just learned a new term while reading a news article about the preps for the coming rain--post-fire hydrophobic soil. I haven't seen a more scientific explanation of exactly how this occurs, but apparently the soil becomes resistant to absorbing moisture, so it runs off at greater volume than it would if it rained on normal, bare soil. That would certainly explain why authorities are always particularly worried about burned areas when it rains.

I'm wondering if the very top layer of soil turns into a water-resistant crust due to the heat? Until erosion or plants breaking through come along, the crust remains intact. I don't know, just conjecture on my part. Anyone know how the soil becomes less absorbent after a fire?

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#156334 - 11/25/08 03:33 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: Arney]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA

Arney..check out JohnMcPhee's book "the control of nature" the chapter "LA against the mountains" explains the entire process.
for someone on the Midwest it was real eye opener..i had no idea that there were huge catch basins built to catch landslides.

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#156400 - 11/26/08 12:52 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: Arney]
bsmith Offline
day hiker
Addict

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 589
Loc: ventura county, ca
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: Jakam
Rains Start today, mud slides predicted..
Anyone know how the soil becomes less absorbent after a fire?

after the fires here in our area i read that the top layer of the soil becomes almost 'glazed'.

am trying to find the reference for you.

ah yes, the term is "hydrophobic".

go here:

scroll down to the bottom of the page to "soil erosion control after wildfire." a link to a pdf that explains hydrophobic soil in detail.



Edited by bsmith (11/26/08 01:09 PM)
Edit Reason: found reference
_________________________
“Everyone should have a horse. It is a great way to store meat without refrigeration. Just don’t ever get on one.”
- ponder's dad

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#156406 - 11/26/08 02:26 PM Re: State of Emergency in Los Angeles [Re: bsmith]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Thanks Canoedogs and bsmith for the info.

So far, after the first night of rains, looks like the burn areas have been spared of any mudslides. I was just reading that the voluntary evacuations had turned into mandatory evacuations in some places last night.

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