The cheap stuff, at least? Both pistol and rifle.

Cheaper Than Dirt and especially Ammoman seem to be pretty well cleaned out. Even WalMart was a bit thin. Any other cheap sources?

I'm looking to stock up so I have a lot of cheap stuff to practice with, and because I'm afraid the price might start to skyrocket with possible upcoming changes in legislation.

Does everyone else have the same idea and is stocking up? I am thinking about getting back into reloading, but the supplies seem to be a lot more than the same number of loaded rounds, when I could find them cheap.

Any help or experiences to share?

Thanks!

David

I put an order in with J&G Sales yesterday but I got a note back saying due to overwhelming business it'll be a week before they can pack it/ship it. The Sportsman's Guide is also running low on the cheap stuff. I hit a gun show last Saturday and ammo prices for 7.62x39 and 7.62x54r had gone up 15% since the last show.

-Blast

I just picked up 7.62 for 3.00 a box for 10 rounds bought all 900 rounds he had,sitting here putting it all on stripper clips. It's still available here for 100.00 for 200 rounds. Our stores don't seem to be low as of yet.

Between high metal prices, the war in Iraq, and a poor economy, ammo prices have steadily been going way up. With the way the election went, it got even worse overnight. Between the high demands from one area, and the high materials prices....it's getting tougher and tougher to find bulk ammo. I doubt it's going to get much cheaper/easier in the short term either.

I've even started stocking up on popular calibers for firearms I don't own, with the hope I might be able to trade it or sell it for more down the line if prices keep going up. Either that, or it might be an excuse for me to get some new firearms.

Paul said everything I could. Right down to getting ready to trade.

How much ammo is a reasonable quantity to have on hand?

I'm NOT a "survivalist" in the Militia mode, nor a hunter. I live in a suburban/semi-rural area, not on a homestead or farm. But I do own rifles, shotguns and pistols. I think that makes me fairly typical of preparedness types.

I'm not worried about fighting off the Jack Booted Thugs of the New World Order or the Spiky Haired Mutants of Mad Max fame.

I would just like to protect me and mine from the type of criminal predators that already exist and might seize a moment of chaos to try to take advantage, or perhaps just from ordinary folks temporarily pushed over the edge by stress, fear and panic.

I would also like to be able to harvest whatever available animal protein that I can and be minimally prepared for an economic or societal "Nuclear Winter."

I know "more is better" and "you can never have enough," and I have my own ideas of minimum amounts to keep on hand, but I would like to hear yours.

What quantities of pistol, rifle and shotgun ammunition would advise someone new to survival preps to keep on hand, as a baseline?

Jeff

THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS -

According to FBI figures for the week of November 3 to 9, the bureau received more than 374,000 requests for background checks on gun purchasers -- a nearly 49 percent increase over the same period in 2007. (Keep in mind no background checks are run if you have a CWP)

Many of our customers are purchasing multiple AR-15's. It is not unusual for them to purchase 5000 rounds of ammunition at the same time.

That is where your ammo is going.

Ammo prices have sky rocketed due to the election and demand. That is it, no questions asked.

I ordered ammo last weekend, a decent amount (bulk packages) and Wideners is out of stock of all most of what I ordered, posted a delay warning on their site, and the other stuff is up by $40.

Ammoman once again this month is no longer accepting orders.

Wal-Mart is stocked throughout the week, and then nearly none, and then re-stocked... wal-mart fluctuates and it's normal.

I stock up on ammo like I stock up on anything else... to use, to save $ in the future due to rising cost, and just to have on hand like anything else.

I can and do shoot off my rear deck, and ammo goes a lot quicker being able to shoot out of your back door.

-Todd

just like gas, what you are seeing right now is speculators going wild. Unless actual legislations are being introduced, I expect the price to come down back to pre-election level.

The nice thing about ammo is, as long as you store it properly, it doesn't really go bad. So, the idea that you can "never have enough" isn't really a bad one as long as you've got the proper storage space. Worst comes to worst you can often resell it, trade it, or just shoot it.

With that said, I've read varying opinions on how much ammo to keep.

Personally, I used to shoot in .22 prone competitions, where I would go through around 1,000 rounds of .22lr a week between practice and matches. Therefore, I would try to keep at least a case on hand (5,000 rounds) just in case, for some reason, I didn't get my weekly supply of ammo. For me, that was the bare minimum. However, someone else might not use that much in a year. So the amount varies per person based on current usage and planned usage.

You also have to examine local laws, some places have limits on the amount of ammo you can store without a Haz-mat permit of some sort. Same with your insurance company, sometimes they put limits on ammo or gunpowder storage.

With all that in mind, here is the reasoning for the amount of ammunition I keep on hand:

If I remember correctly the standard load of rifle ammunition for the US military is 210 rounds of ammunition split among (7) 30 rounds magazines, and that is supposed to last an average soldier 48 hours under normal fighting conditions. (Whatever "average" and "normal" are? ) However, many do carry more than that.

Now, the government also says we should stock at least three days worth of food and water.

Therefore, going by those numbers, I figure with every three day supply of food and water, I also like to stock around 500 rounds of ammunition with each firearm, as that would probably prepare me for worst case scenario (military action), have enough for a much less hostile scenario (hunting/basic protection), while not being what some would consider an unreasonable (obscene?) or totally immobile amount of ammunition.

Now, that number doesn't take into account how many capable shooters you have or what kind/how many firearms you have. So you may want to have more or less depending on firearm type and amount, or more or less based upon how many people you expect. It's only my somewhat arbitrary baseline.

For example, you might not want to stock 500 rounds of .375 H&H for your grandfather's antique doubles rifle, as that would cost over $2,000 and it's probably not a gun you're going to shoot that much, especially if you live in "the lower 48." But, you might want to stock more than 500 rounds of .22LR, because .22LR is so small, useful, popular, and easy to shoot. You have to take those things into account.

Long story short, there isn't a perfect set amount. IMO, the best thing you can do is come up with a reasonable baseline from other sources and then modify it based on your own individual needs.

I suspect that the recent election has a little to do with it. But also, more and more law enforcement agencies are facing massive cutbacks in their budgets, resulting in there not being an officer to come help when you need it. For example, last year one county in Oregon lost so much money that the sheriff reported that his deputies could no longer patrol, and would only respond to MAJOR crimes. He advised everyone in his county to get a gun, and was passing out CCW's like mad. In such an environment, I suspect that more and more folks are buying guns and lots of ammo...

Circa 1992: I was a reserve deputy (Fully Commissioned) in small town Oklahoma. All paid deputies but one got off shift at 2100. Dispatch phone (Before small town 911) was forwarded to Oklahoma Highway Patrol.
If a call came in, OHP phoned the "duty" deputy at his home and he was ON HIS OWN. We all monitored the radio, and he would call an unofficial "Phone Tree" (like the military call out roster) to wake a few up to monitor the radio. if someone was already awake, they would radio for him to pick them up and ride along for free.

All that said, the local sheriff told citizens that it would take at least one hour for someone to respond to any call. We often as not, knew who we were going to see and would call to see if that person had shot the bad guy already. If so we would call for an ambulance also.

Believe it or not crime really did not increase. Before budget cut, the baddies worried they MIGHT get popped. After, It was a given Farmer Brown's widow was sleeping with John Browning and the baddie's odds of survival weren't great.

Really wasn't fun going solo on a call 70 miles into the country at 0300 though.

Right now, I'm outside the US and my weapons are in storage, but in college I had what I considered a reasonable amount of ammo on hand. I kept 500-1000 rounds of .22 for my pistol. When I went out plinking I generally shot a couple hundred rounds, especially if I was taking some one shooting (great date by the way). For my 9mm CCW, I had 100-150 rounds. I mostly shot it for familiarization, say 50 rounds a session at the range, since I could pour rounds through the .22 to practice marksmanship and 9mm is more expensive. For the single shot shotgun I kept around 50 rounds of buck and bird shot, plus a 10-20 slug rounds. Its hard to go through a lot of ammo with a single shot weapon, and I didn't see a need for anymore then that.

When I get back to the US I'll probably end up with about the same amount of ammo. If I pick up a semi-auto rifle, I'll probably keep about 500 rounds on hand for it as well. I generally go off of how much ammo I shoot at the range in a single session and keep about three times that amount on hand fluctuating up to five. For something hard to find, I'd probably buy all I could get. For something as ubiquitous as 9mm or 12 gauge, I wouldn't worry about how much I had nearly as much as long as I had "some". I was also in college, didn't have a great place to store it and didn't have a lot of cash. The nice thing about .22 was 1000 rounds was $20.

I think I've still got 1500+ rounds for my SKS. Hopefully that will last till the roller coaster swings the other way.
It sure isn't enough if I have to retake the country though.

"How much ammo is a reasonable quantity to have on hand?"

I don't know how much is 'enough', but I asked a gentleman I know if he keeps much ammo around, and his response was, "My weapons will melt down before I run out of ammo".

He has quite a few weapons of the projectile-discharging type.

Sue

Investing in and learning how to use reloading equipment is another approach to consider.

Yep, I hope to get into that soon.

Seems like an enjoyable hobby too!

This is the best site that I have found for locating quickly dwindling supplies of ammo at a good price.

http://www.gun-deals.com/ammo.php

I keep several thousand rounds for each caliber of rifle that I have, .223, 308, 7.62 x 39 and a thousand rounds of ammo for my handguns of each caliber.

I have just ordered a bunch of 223 and 45 auto.

I don't know that I am expecting a ban, but I had extra cash around and thought that this was a better investment than the stock market right now .

Those components are also going up in price and scarcity. (there are lots of reloaders out there already)

How much ammo should you have?

Enough to last the rest of your life because you can't be sure ammo sales to non-military won't be banned. Like not waiting until your gas gage reads Empty before refueling, don't shoot up all your ammo. Keep a reserve.

Please do plan to practice once in awhile.

To me, it seems best to wait a while for things to simmer down. Right now, gun dealers are taking advantage of uncertainty to pump up sales. In a few months gun dealers will be hurting for sales after the wave has passed. Many that were going to buy will have over-indulged. Who will want to buy another gun or case of ammo after already having splurged in November? Suppliers that are increasing production will get everything to stores in time to see that nobody wants to buy. There will be many many sales.

AR's and parts are almost impossible to find right now. I work with a gun shop and sales are very good. Have been for the past month or so.

Folks, I can't believe I'm reading this here.

Ammo is like water - you keep plenty around, because when it runs out, there's no substitute for it. With the diversion of military calibers to Iraq and panic buying by other gun owners who have not actually made their supply ready over the years, it's no wonder there are shortages.

I always made a point of buying ammo almost every time I was in the gun shop or other store that sells it, for 10 years now. Just a box here and there, not so it hurts, but so if I want to go to the range and shred paper for 6 hours, I'm not really thinking about if I can spare 400 rounds. I like to shoot until I'm TIRED, so that means plenty of ammo.

Stores are only one source for ammo. Every time I can pick up a brick or two of ammo at a yard sale - even for guns I don't have - I do, and for guns I do own, I've always been sure to have enough ammo for a fun time at the range any time I want, several times over.

Anyway, I've always had lots of luck at estate sales, just ask "are there any firearms related items" and 7 times out of 10, I get led into the basement where 'ol Hank kept his hunting stuff and the wife has no idea what 5,000 rounds of 30-06 ammo in sealed metal cans should cost, so if I get it out of there for $25, she's happy. Oh and can you just take that box of odd ammo
(with like 37 rounds each of .32, .25, 25-40, 38 Special, 8mm, .44 and a bunch of other oddball stuff)

Also got about 4,000 rounds of Ballisticlean 9MM lead-free training ammo at an estate sale for $100 once.

There are options.

[quote=Jeff_McCann]How much ammo is a reasonable quantity to have on hand?

As much as will fill a refrigerator, in direct proportion to the type & number of guns you own.

Okay, I'll put you down for "more is better" and "you can never have enough." My supply currently occupies one large, deep shelf, but I think I'll wait just a little while to restock.

Still, I'm not sure what to suggest to a newbie just starting to prepare.

Jeff

good deals (for current times) ended about 1.5 weeks ago... prices sky rocketed even more it seems.

I was at Sportsman Warehouse last night and while I found plenty of ammo they were certainly doing brisk business on firearms. At least of there handgun stock was off the wall. In my mind meaning they had no more to sell.

In any regard, I picked up another box of .22LR. What I could not find was any magazines. None. They moved things around since the last there but I walked every aisle in the section twice and didn't see a single mag area.

"I would also like to be able to harvest whatever available animal protein that I can and be minimally prepared for an economic or societal "Nuclear Winter.""

If things ever get this bad, your ammo might just keep you and your family from becoming someone else's source of protein. No warning shots for anyone with the surname "Donner".

Never keep all of your supply of ammo in one centralized location. Never tell all family or friends about all of your different storage locations.

Personally, I think 10,000 rounds on hand is a good start. Most of that is for the semi-automatic firearms I keep, the rest I divy up amongst the more traditional hunting guns.

A reloading setup can be a handy thing to have when the bubble goes up as well. You can make up handloads that you could not easily duplicate on the open market. Casting your own bullets gets even better.

I agree with Ben about reloading rounds that are not available commercially.

For example, my son is a new hunter and still a little shy about centerfire rifle recoil. So I handloaded 165gr. Hornady Spire-point bullets in a reduced powder .308 Win. load. The round is about on par with .300 Savage velocity and recoils significantly less than my full trottle 180 gr. loads. The whitetailed deer he cleanly harvested last year had no idea it was a reduced load.

Cast bullets can also be a lot of fun for harvesting small game.

Mike

And a bunch of 7.62 as well...



Snagged from another forum that I frequent.

Jim

I've still got my 60 handloaded 215 grain rhino loads for the SMLE in case any moose show up in Los Angeles. That, and a few hundred in commercial hardball.

I figure, when Kokopelli's brother TEOTWAWKI descends out of season ahead of cornmaiden I'll just wait for all these american patriots with chicom SKS or Kalashnikovs to start reenacting Red Dawn or whatever.

One round at range like the afghan mujahadeens and I OWn all that chicom ammo and that funny looking tyre jack of a carbine.

I'm stocking up on brit marmalade, pilot bread, organic dark chocolate, tea and good single malt whisky myself.

You and I are thinking along the same lines, Chris!!

But what happens when the Hind Helicopter shows up?

10,000 rounds? Geez, I feel like a slacker. Probably only have 200 or so of .22, and equal numbers for my other 2 rifles. Looks I need to cruise by the gun show next time it's in town.

Quiet, mild and cheap loads for 30-06. Lyman manual #48

170 grain Oregon trail lasercast lead bullets .310 diameter.
$56/500 (used to be $24/500 last year, the price of lead and copper
had come back down so maybe bullets will too when they run out
of
current inventory.)

Range pickup brass (cleaned, resized, flared with a center punch) Low pressure loads (24000 cup) so they will last nearly forever.
Free

Primers
$20/1000


Alliant Unique Pistol Powder (use only with cast bullets in rifles)
$18/pound
12 grains
In my Springfield -03 I get 1.5" 4 shot groups at 100.
Standard Deviation 40
Velocity 1430fps

No barrel wear, shoots cool, easy for kids (like a big 22)

Buy a couple of boxes bullets, a box of primers and a couple of
lbs of unique and brass from the range or your non reloading
buddies and you have 1000 rounds of ammo.

Here is a kit for your bob

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1226767548.4324=/html/catalog/cleeloader.html

NEVER,EVER pick up range brass! You simply cannot know it's history and are rolling dice it won't have a catastrophic head seperation or case rupture.A brand new, Federal ( thickest case out there) from a rifle with excessive headspace will seperate after resising and firing.I know,I had to extract the shell from a Garand when it was reloaded after firing in an old 03 Springfield!!! We practise firearms safety to the point of almost silly failsafe handling ( don't we?)

Now, as to HIND helcopters. I refer everyone to my favourite buggout movie Lonely Are The Brave with Kirk Douglas. Old Kirk shoots down Bill Bixbie with a .32 Winchester.My helicopter rifle is a .375 with hunting solids rubbbed in garlic.

If he was still alive, Owen Baggett would probably be able to shoot down a helicopter for you.

"Japanese pilots began strafing, killing some crewmen and grazing Baggett in the arm. The pilot that struck the blow circled, perhaps to get a better look, perhaps to finish the job. As he parachuted to the ground, Baggett played dead. The enemy pilot opened his canopy, approaching within feet, his plane's nose up and on the verge of stalling out. Baggett raised the .45 automatic pistol concealed against his leg and fired four shots. The Zero stalled, spun toward the earth. Baggett learned later that the enemy pilot was found dead, with a single bullet through his head."


Scroll down to the 7th article:

http://www.7thbg.org/Nov2006.htm

Hinds are reportedly pretty tough to shoot down. "...The body is heavily armored and the titanium rotor blades can resist impacts from .50 caliber (12.7 mm) rounds..." ( Link ). I wonder if the transmission is armored as well. Take out the tranny and down it goes...

Well, one advantage to having a lot of common ammo is the barter factor I suppose.

Reloading has two appealing aspects. First, and for most starting out this is the big one, is the economy. Yeah, the initial investment can cost you an extra couple hundred, but after 1,500 rounds that investment has paid for itself. The other, and the one that I prefer, is the ability to customize my ammo to my firearms and/or purpose.

I like the Remington 9mm JHP 9MM1 (standard pressure) available at Walmarts. At ~$23 per 100 it's cheap enough to be considered "range ammo", but it can serve as a defense load as well. Maybe not as good as the $1.00 per round stuff, but not really THAT far behind it. However, I've checked three Walmarts now and they're all sold out of it. I used to have no problems getting it. :-(

This also makes the case (pun intended) for careful inspection
of all brass before you load up.

Also for wearing safety glasses.

You knew the history of the case and
still had a problem. I have had NEW brass improperly
annealed at the factory that failed on the first shooting,
-even on low pressure loads. The factory replaced them.

Bob, a friend of mine told me if you don't have a
comparator to measure headspace of the
unsized, fired brass, you can do the same thing with a
bit of tubing or a socket that fits over the neck and
against the shoulder so
you can measure with your caliper and compare to factory
brass. Also you could cut open one case from the batch
and measure above the web to see if there is any thinning
which could lead to separation. A micrometer is best for
this.

Toss any that are questionable.

As Nosler says, ALMOST anybody can reload. I learn
something everyday.

You may even find a friend's rifle, like that old -03,
that has dangerous headspace and save them some grief.
Brit 303's are notorious I have heard for excessive
headspace.

Stopped at a gun show yesterday. Ammo is up in price somewhat, yet gun prices don't appear to have jumped that much. However, at some tables, people were stacked 3 deep just trying to look at the inventory, mainly semi-auto handguns & rifles. In over 40 years of attending these shows, I've never seen it as crowded as yesterday. Different demographics too, with more couples and retired, or near-retired people. Background checks were several hours, so people were submitting their information and would come back today to pickup their firearms.

Ammo and reloading supplies went fast. I overheard one vendor saying that manufacturers were cutting order quantities and raising the prices on pre-existing orders. Another vendor said that people were purchasing several thousand rounds at a time of centerfire handgun ammo. Saw another vendor who'd raised the prices on some ammo by just changing the 1 to 2 for $10 to $20.

I stopped by Sportsman's Warehouse this afternoon. On the handgun wall and display cases, which are usually well stocked with multiple handguns on each peg on the wall, I'd say a supply of two dozen handguns would be stretching it. Powder selection was nill. They say they've sold ~200 handguns since the election.

Also hearing (and know some) people purchasing handguns for the first time (the wisdom of some who do that without getting training is another story, thankfully, those I know are seeking training).

Glad I'm not just getting started, though if I did, I'd be blissfully ignorant of the "olden days".

Not sure what sportsman you went to but the one in Rocklin sounds the same as the one you went too.... out of many many handguns, I also didn't see one "tactical" or "short" barreled shotgun on their rack.

Looks like that cost of lead bullets has come back down.

Lasercast 170 grain 30-30 bullets were up to $60 per 500. Now
Cabelas has em for $46.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0012705213468a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntt=lasercast&Ntk=Products&sort=all&Go.y=10&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&_D%3Asort=+&Nty=1&hasJS=true&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form1&Go.x=20&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1