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#154930 - 11/11/08 06:30 PM Les Stroud releases survival book
Glock-A-Roo Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Les Stroud has released his survival book. Love him or hate him, I expect his book will at least have a few gems since there's no denying Les' field experience.

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#154934 - 11/11/08 07:08 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
falcon5000 Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
Thanks Glock-A-Roo, so much for Amazons little send you a e-mail when it becomes available function. Got one on order, good call. I enjoy Les's adventures, let's see how the book goes.
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#154958 - 11/11/08 10:20 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
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Registered: 03/31/06
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Loc: United Kingdom.
I fear that the title has been mis-reported.

Correct title is "Survival as suicide" Author: Les Stroud.
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#154962 - 11/11/08 10:36 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
ironraven Offline
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Ah man... Not another book from someone I respect....

Someone twist my arm please.

Doug, are you ever going to write a book? :P
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#154966 - 11/11/08 10:56 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Hikin_Jim Offline
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Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
I fear that the title has been mis-reported.

Correct title is "Survival as suicide" Author: Les Stroud.
What the? confused This must be an example of that ever inscrutable quantity, "dry British humor."
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#154985 - 11/12/08 02:43 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Susan Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I thought that "Survival as Suicide" was the book written by Bear Gryllis.

Sue

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#155014 - 11/12/08 02:48 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Susan]
dougwalkabout Offline
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Ditto on the "dry British humour."

Costco in Edmonton, Canada has Les's book in stock. Gave it a quick browse. It looks quite interesting.

I'll probably borrow it the library. I have plenty of books; what I need is to steal time for more adventures. There's no substitute for 'boots on the ground.'

Then again, it's time to make a Christmas wish list ...


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#155095 - 11/13/08 03:24 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
BOD Offline
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I wonder why Les Stroud says a lean-to is a waste of time
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#155100 - 11/13/08 06:43 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BOD]
bmisf Offline
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Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 185
Received the book today - will post comments tomorrow...

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#155105 - 11/13/08 10:46 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Susan]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
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Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Susan
I thought that "Survival as Suicide" was the book written by Bear Gryllis.

Sue



There are only so many way's to write a survival book. Once you have read FM-71-26 and the S.A.S. survival hand book, you have about covered the subject. Specialist area books not withstanding that is.

I think a lot of people miss the point with Bear. He makes no bones about the risk, and he also makes it very plain that all too often devolves down to Possible Death against Certain Death.

To me he has one virtue that stands out:

He never gives up. It goes wrong its "time for another plan."

If we could convince half the idiot's out there to carry, and learn to use, the same gear Bear has then this site would have achieved it's purpose.
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#155106 - 11/13/08 10:52 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BOD]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
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Originally Posted By: BOD
I wonder why Les Stroud says a lean-to is a waste of time


Possibly because a lean-to is a specialist shelter for North European/Canadian forest use in conjunction with a fire. It also takes a lot of effort (read: calories)and tools to construct.

Prefered option is an A-Frame shelter.
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#155108 - 11/13/08 01:08 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
SwampDonkey Offline
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Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
I ordered my copy of Les Stroud "Survive" from Chapters Online yesterday (along with 4 other outdoor books). Survive will take 3 to 4 weeks to be delivered.

I figured that instead of receiving stuff I do not need, I will pass these books on to my wife and she can have our kids give them to me for Christmas. I will have to practice my, " Wow, how did you ever know that I wanted this book" surprised response for Christmas morning!

Mike

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#155117 - 11/13/08 04:08 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: bmisf]
comms Offline
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I think most of us have watched a lot of his shows and know that he does use lean-to's. Though quite often his emphasis is on fire and radiant heat and dead fall shelters or teepee type structures. He also huddles into caves or builds rock walls to block wind and create a heat area.

When he does build shelters he, in my mind, he is mostly doing deadfall shelter, Les is very much a LNT kind of guy. I don't recall many shelters that have exposed sides like a classic lean to.

Thats just my interpretation of watching his show. I will be interested in seeing the responses for that statement from people who have read the book.
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#155134 - 11/13/08 05:20 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Loganenator Offline
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Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Sacramento, CA, USA
Hey All,

I don't know if this news has been posted anywhere else in the forum. I just found out in a Reuters article that Les Stroud is ending his "Survivorman" TV show. Living in the Wild takes toll on TV's "Survivorman". The last 3 seasons have been fantastic, I'm glad that his success has helped him achieve more of his goals. I hope to pick up his book today. smile

Since I have seen Les post on this Forum before he may be reading this and I just want to say:

"Great work Les! We will all miss the "Survivorman" show but we look forward to more great things from you!" smile

Cheers,
Logan.



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#155137 - 11/13/08 05:39 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: comms]
bmisf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 185
Quick first reactions:
  • The book is rather conventional in coverage and structure, though it does seem quite thorough and the information is concisely and densely presented
  • It's a wilderness survival book - only a few pages on "disasters", and pretty skimpy info at that (not a surprise given the focus of his show)
  • Lots of pictures from the show, lots of tie-ins with the show (though all good content, so not a complaint)
  • The design is not great, particularly the choice of orange type for headers and an orange background with reverse white type for Les' tips, which as a result are a bit hard to read
  • The gear checklists at the end contain no surprises or new info, but are solid lists and will be useful especially to those not already steeped in emergency preparedness

All in all, a fine addition to the library, at least based on my short time with it so far. I'll read it cover to cover and come back at some point with more observations.

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#155423 - 11/16/08 07:01 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Loganenator]
wildman800 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2847
Loc: La-USA
I have finally seen my first episode of "Survivorman" and YES!, I am impressed.
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#155436 - 11/16/08 10:55 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
BOD Offline
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Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 33
Loc: paleotropics

Les is great indeed and deserves his success no doubt. Have only watched one series so far.

The lean-to is not exclusive to North America. The ancestors of the first Americans continue to use it in the forests of Asia - mountain or tropical
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#155440 - 11/16/08 11:32 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
urbansurvivalist Offline
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Registered: 11/27/05
Posts: 127
Loc: Asheville, NC
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe

I think a lot of people miss the point with Bear. He makes no bones about the risk, and he also makes it very plain that all too often devolves down to Possible Death against Certain Death.

To me he has one virtue that stands out:

He never gives up. It goes wrong its "time for another plan."

If we could convince half the idiot's out there to carry, and learn to use, the same gear Bear has then this site would have achieved it's purpose.


The problem with Bear is that he makes choices with an extremely high risk when there are far safer and better options - i.e. climbing down a waterfall instead of hiking around; drinking his own urine and liquid extracted from animal dung; and frantically running everywhere instead of walking(which uses less energy and water for the same distance travelled).
All of those choices reduce chances of survival with no benefit, except better TV ratings. Perhaps his show would be less ludacrous if the goal was to elude capture in enemy territory, and if it were advertised as pure entertainment instead of an educational show that "will teach you how to survive".

As far as gear, basic outdoor knowledge about how to dress and keep warm, build a fire, and stay hydrated would help people far more than carrying whatever fancy knife that Bear Grylls does. Preparation and planning for the unexpected, gear included, is definitely important, but telling someone "buy this and always carry it and you can survive" does little more than give someone a false sense of security.

When I was a wilderness instructor and Bear Grylls' name came up, I would tell my students to do the exact opposite of what they had seen him do, and they would have a descent chance of surviving.

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#155445 - 11/17/08 12:31 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: bmisf]
BruceZed Offline
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Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Nice book, I have had it for a week and so far have only found a few errors.

It is to bad he tried to cover the entire world. Different Survival Environments require totally different skills sets and it is very hard to make a "Survive Everywhere" book that really has allot of information in it.
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#155520 - 11/17/08 07:28 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
bmisf Offline
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Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 185
I think the underlying theme of his show and the book can be summed up as "be prudently cautious but resourceful and never give up".

Just saw the new Sierra Nevada episode, where he makes a trap out of his guitar in addition to Paiute deadfalls from rocks and sticks. None of them caught anything - and in fact one of the deadfalls failed from being set up improperly - and the fact that he shows that, along with his thought processes and how he learns - is fantastic.

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#155527 - 11/17/08 09:03 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: urbansurvivalist]
benjammin Offline
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I agree. Many of Bear's tactics leave little room for error. If it isn't executed just right, the results can be devastating, bordering on lethal. Does he demonstrate an expert approach to survival, I would think so. Unfortunately his audience will miss the context of most of his actions and if they follow his example, are more likely than not to experience failure. What he does is extreme, and merely illustrates how bad it can be and what must be done to overcome the worst possible outcomes. That is not a good teaching environment, because the failure for the pupil is so catastrophic as to be impractical.
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#155542 - 11/17/08 10:32 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: wildman800]
ironraven Offline
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Wildman, which one was it?
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#155563 - 11/18/08 03:16 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
ki4buc Offline
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Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
BruceZed: What kind of errors did you find?

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#155591 - 11/18/08 08:02 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: benjammin]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
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Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: benjammin
I agree. Many of Bear's tactics leave little room for error. If it isn't executed just right, the results can be devastating, bordering on lethal. Does he demonstrate an expert approach to survival, I would think so. Unfortunately his audience will miss the context of most of his actions and if they follow his example, are more likely than not to experience failure. What he does is extreme, and merely illustrates how bad it can be and what must be done to overcome the worst possible outcomes. That is not a good teaching environment, because the failure for the pupil is so catastrophic as to be impractical.


He is very much doing "can't go back, can't go around...."

As for people who miss the point and get killed?

Mr Darwin thanks you.....
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#155623 - 11/18/08 04:02 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: bmisf]
BruceZed Offline
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Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: bmisf
...new Sierra Nevada episode, where he makes a trap out of his guitar in addition to Paiute deadfalls from rocks and sticks. None of them caught anything - and in fact one of the deadfalls failed from being set up improperly...


3000 KCal later he has destroyed a guitar and wasted enough calories to live for 2 days and has nothing to show for it.

"Survival is the Art of Minimal Investment for Maximum Return"


Edited by BruceZed (11/18/08 04:02 PM)
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Boreal Wilderness Institute
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#155626 - 11/18/08 04:43 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
benjammin Offline
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Survival is also an art of learning, some by reason, some by trial and error. The point in this case is in making an effort and thinking of something that should work. Sometimes you gotta be able to give these little experiments more than a day to prove up. There is an element of chance in all this too.

Here's how the equation works, you can choose to expend some energy trying to accomplish something sensible, even if it is a little unorthodox, on the chance that what you try might fail, or you can sit around and do nothing, and be assured of failure.

In addition to the mouse trap, it says he rigged some decent snares with the guitar strings as well. Hunting and trapping for survival typically has a low success rate, so increasing your odds by deploying as many tries as possible is perhaps the only suitable hedge, aside from being more prepared.

The point is, you gotta keep trying. A guitar trap is not an impractical effort, just not predictably successful.

BTW, I missed where it said he burned 3,000 kCal building this one trap. That number seems mighty excessive to me. I manage about 500 kCal on my elliptical going all out for half an hour. I can't imagine building this trap would be six times that effort. Maybe 3,000 calories, or 3 kCal would be a more appropriate and believable number in this case. The amount of work effort (3,000 kCal) claimed just to build the trap is unbelievable.
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#155634 - 11/18/08 06:30 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
"A smart man learns from his experiences. A wise man learns from the experiences of others".

Les' show is an opportunity to be a student of someone else's experience. Sometimes seeing failure is beneficial to a student. Even if Les had set up the traps perfectly they may have not caught game. And that is another valuable lesson: sometimes you can do everything right and still lose.

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#155662 - 11/19/08 12:38 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
ironraven Offline
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Originally Posted By: BruceZed
3000 KCal later


Interesting. What is your source for that? I'm just curious, because I can't for the life of me figure out how taking apart a cheap guitar would suck up 3000 Calories. MAYBE 300.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#155681 - 11/19/08 06:52 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
Herbie Offline
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Registered: 03/27/07
Posts: 17
Loc: SoCal
Its also worth noting that Les has demonstrated the Paiute (figure 4) deadfall and snare setting in other episodes where he successfully scored a meal. The fact that he got skunked in most recent episodes drives home the point that you need many traps, and even then success isn't guaranteed.

For me the biggest value of the Survivorman series has always been the mistakes made (and shown). He's injured himself doing stupid things, he has tried to rig things that failed, and hes demonstrated that many of the activities associated with getting food in a survival situation involve more skill and more luck than most want to admit.

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#155706 - 11/19/08 05:29 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Herbie]
Hikin_Jim Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Herbie
Its also worth noting that Les has demonstrated the Paiute (figure 4) deadfall and snare setting in other episodes where he successfully scored a meal. The fact that he got skunked in most recent episodes drives home the point that you need many traps, and even then success isn't guaranteed.

For me the biggest value of the Survivorman series has always been the mistakes made (and shown). He's injured himself doing stupid things, he has tried to rig things that failed, and hes demonstrated that many of the activities associated with getting food in a survival situation involve more skill and more luck than most want to admit.
I agree. If nothing else, Les' mistakes teach you what might go wrong, what to look out for. If someone executes everything flawlessly every time, then you have no idea as to the what the pitfalls of that technique might be. When you see a screw up, you then are on the alert. Sometimes knowing what NOT to do is as valuable as knowing what to do.

(For starters, watching Man v. Wild looking for survival tips is something you should NOT do) grin
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#155772 - 11/20/08 03:28 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Mike_H Offline
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Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
I picked up his book and just started reading through it. I've always admired Les' adventures. I would definitely trust his advice over Bear's.

He often does a lot of his survive on what you have on you shows, but this last one, he actually had some decent equipment on it. Loved him signaling the helicopter, shows how to employ signaling devices. Would have liked to have seen him use a whistle too.
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#155774 - 11/20/08 03:36 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Mike_H]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
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Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Does anyone know if the current Survivorman episodes are watchable online in some fashion? I never seem to catch it on TV.

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#155785 - 11/20/08 05:25 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Hikin_Jim Offline
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Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Does anyone know if the current Survivorman episodes are watchable online in some fashion? I never seem to catch it on TV.
They're generally not available unless there's some kind of a bootleg copy on a bit torrent (peer to peer) site or something like that. You can see a sneak preview of the Arctic Tundra episode here: http://www.lesstroudonline.com/video/season3teasearctictundra Note that it's only a preview.

HJ
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#155803 - 11/20/08 09:10 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
benjammin Offline
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Y'know, I bet there's a whole lotta those episodes he'd like to do over, but properly equipped and resourced instead. I know I would surely love to.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#156444 - 11/26/08 10:49 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
BruceZed Offline
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Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Please note that a Kcal is the proper scientific term for a food Calorie or a Big C Calorie as they are sometimes called.

"One food Calorie (1 kcal or 1,000 calories) is the amount of digestively available food energy (heat) that will raise the temperature of one kilogram of water one degree Celsius. Some advocate the convention of the capitalizing the C in these so that one food Calorie is equal to 1000 lowercase calories..." - Wikopedia.

i.e. 3000 kcal is 3000 Food Calories
_________________________
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Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#156450 - 11/27/08 01:00 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
3000 kcal is 3000 Food Calories


Or to put it another way, using a survival mindset, about 3/4 lb of body fat. grin


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#156451 - 11/27/08 01:21 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
JCWohlschlag Offline
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Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
Thank you for pointing that out. I always wondered what all the “kcal” stuff was about. I learn something new every day… like exactly how stupid our (American) measurement system is.
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#156575 - 11/29/08 03:33 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
ironraven Offline
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Kilocalories are sometimes also described as "Calories", while a single calorie is a "calorie"- the capital C is significant.

Again Bruce, and I'm not trying to pick a fight but I just don't get it, what are you basing your estimate of 3000 KCals on? That is a lot of energy expended, and I just don't understand how you are arriving at that number.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#156648 - 11/30/08 12:28 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ironraven]
Yuccahead Offline
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Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 199
Loc: W. Texas
"Again Bruce, and I'm not trying to pick a fight but I just don't get it, what are you basing your estimate of 3000 KCals on? That is a lot of energy expended, and I just don't understand how you are arriving at that number."

Bruce might be including the effort to build all of the traps and snares, not just the guitar trap.
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#156651 - 11/30/08 01:18 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Nemoaz Offline
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Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 4
>>Does he demonstrate an expert approach to survival, I would think so.

Grylli Vanilli, an expert? Weekend warrior sham, yes. Hotel frequent flyer, yes. Expert, laughable. I won't let my children watch Idiot vs. Motel.

Les at least tries to show survival skills. He also tries to demonstrate a different skill each time, hence why he doesn't just pull out his shoelace and start a fire each time.

I'm sure some of us are fairly comfortable in our own environment, but if you were dropped into Africa or Arizona, you'd struggle too.

At least Les is authentic and doesn't demonstrate things that not only won't help you survive but actually increase your chance of failure.

As for the lean-to quote, I'm sure for his experience in a boreal forest, he's correct. A lean-to just doesn't offer sufficient protection here in Upper Michigan unless you are sleeping in front of a raging fire.

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#156659 - 11/30/08 03:27 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Nemoaz]
comms Offline
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Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
I would rather believe that "3000 calories" was a sarcastic term than literal. On a strenuous day of survival and filming for the show, Les could easily expend twice that many calories over say 15 or 16 hours of work, carrying 50 pounds of gear back and forth, going up and down hills, bush whacking, shivering, not sleeping properly, stress, adrenaline and working around a camp area.

There is a big difference also between a loss of calories and the loss of body weight. 3500 calories may equal a pound but if the body loses a pound it may not be 3500 calories. It could be water.

I have done Ironmans where my heart rate monitor showed I burned 12,000 calories or a bit over 3 lbs. during a 14 hour race but on the scale I lost 23 pounds. Yes 23 pounds. Water a significant part of that and almost all the wieght put back on by the the next weekend or so.
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#156782 - 12/01/08 07:23 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: comms]
TheSock Offline
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Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
A blurb I got from Les:

For the second week in a row Les’ book is on the Globe and Mail bestsellers list in the very competitive Non-Fiction category. Survive! has had exceptional sales in both Canada and the USA. If you haven't picked up your copy yet it is available at local book stores and online.


Canada AM Les will be appearing on Canada AM on Wednesday December 3rd 2008 in the morning. Please check your local listings for information.
Q with Jian Ghomeshi Les will be interviewed on Q with Jian Ghomeshi on CBC radio on Thursday December 4th 2008 at 11:00am (EST).
Good Morning America Les will be appearing on Good Morning America on Monday December 22nd 2008. Check your local listings for information.
Stay tuned more to come on Les' news section.

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#160113 - 12/27/08 04:22 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Desperado Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/01/08
Posts: 1530
Loc: DFW, Texas
Received Les' book Christmas. Just finished it and was impressed. I have always enjoyed his humble down to earth approach and was glad to see it continue. It was especially nice to see him credit the subject / area experts that have aided him throughout his travels.
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#160156 - 12/27/08 04:07 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Desperado]
username_5 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 54
me like Les

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#160185 - 12/27/08 08:44 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Desperado]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
About a quarter through the first read. Me likie, it definantly goes onto the "new school books" list next to Lundin's.

I know someone said they didn't like the orange blocks, but I rather like the color. It isn't hard to my eyes, but I'm also a cave dwelling computer guy. :P
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#160372 - 12/29/08 02:23 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Got the book for Christmas and finished reading it. I like it very much. Les covers the basics and more but you can tell that he dispensed with stuff that only seems to work in dusty survival books. I like his grouping stuff into "solidly reliable method" and "last ditch!". Very real-world and down to earth, with some 110% justifiable (but non-specific) jabs at Bear Grylls' TV antics. Recommended.

Would love to see Doug Ritter's take on the book.

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#160431 - 12/29/08 11:08 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Would love to see Doug Ritter's counterpart to this book.


Fixed that for you. *grins* I know it is probably is never going to happen, but I'd love to see Doug write a book.
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#161435 - 01/05/09 07:29 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
Mike_H Offline
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Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
The one thing that raised an eyebrow when reading this was his apparent love for the Spot device. One would think he is on the payroll for it.
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#161450 - 01/05/09 08:47 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Mike_H]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Mike_H
The one thing that raised an eyebrow when reading this was his apparent love for the Spot device. One would think he is on the payroll for it.


Concur. Actually, I think he is on their payroll. I've seen ads where he promotes the Spot, and that surely wasn't done for free. It's fine if he genuinely likes the device but given Doug's analysis, I'm surprised Les is such a fan. Maybe it's because the Spot is the best thing going in that genre, though not perfect, like any v1.0 product.

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#161478 - 01/05/09 10:54 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
the Spot is the best thing going in that genre


Is there ANYTHING else like it that comes close to price and size?
_________________________
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#161485 - 01/05/09 11:03 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
I picked this up the day it came out, and read it voraciously in 2 consecutive nights. True, there arent that many things in the book that most here dot at least have a passing knowledge of; but, I have huge respect for him, and enjoyed the book immensely. It is a boiled down, no nonsense book, one I plan on lending to my nephew shortly.
I didnt know he was giving up the show! I completely understand and respect his decision, but, it saddens me. If he DOES read this forum, I would also like to chime in that I will miss watching his shows, and look forward to his next ventures!
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#168855 - 03/06/09 11:31 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: oldsoldier]
Hookpunch Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 128


Went through the book, and though Les knows more about me on most subjects, I have to say the section on knots is a bit lacking.

Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,


I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I suggest that everyone should learn the knots listed here.

http://www.4thtyldesley.co.uk/knots/

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#168857 - 03/07/09 12:17 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Nemoaz]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Nemoaz
>>Does he demonstrate an expert approach to survival, I would think so.

Grylli Vanilli, an expert? Weekend warrior sham, yes. Hotel frequent flyer, yes. Expert, laughable. I won't let my children watch Idiot vs. Motel.

Les at least tries to show survival skills. He also tries to demonstrate a different skill each time, hence why he doesn't just pull out his shoelace and start a fire each time.

I'm sure some of us are fairly comfortable in our own environment, but if you were dropped into Africa or Arizona, you'd struggle too.

At least Les is authentic and doesn't demonstrate things that not only won't help you survive but actually increase your chance of failure.

As for the lean-to quote, I'm sure for his experience in a boreal forest, he's correct. A lean-to just doesn't offer sufficient protection here in Upper Michigan unless you are sleeping in front of a raging fire.


"I like Les. His is more real. I don't like Bear. His is bigger but fake. I'm a homo with special TV idol needs. I wish Les would magically appear in my room for me, but not Bear Grylls. Blah, blah, blah..."

SHUT UP!!!

Why do people always try to compare between these two? They are two different guys who ENJOY doing there own different style of show. If you don't like it, turn the channel. I personally watch both shows and I enjoy them both about the same. I do not, however, hope to learn anything in particular about survival from a TV show. Go on a survival outing with an accredited wilderness school to learn about survival. You ever heard of Tom Brown Jr.? Give one of his books a try. He is about as legendary as a survival guy can be, and he doesn't need a TV show to prove it. There is no magic formula for survival. It is primarily about attitude, which is something we can get a taste of from watching TV, but until you are there, you haven't learned anything.

I'm just tired of all the whining favoritist brats that feel the need to tell everybody who they like. It all sounds like a bunch of junior high school girls.

Congratulations on your book, Les, although I haven't read it yet.


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#168861 - 03/07/09 01:20 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Well, there's no need to be abusive. If you didn't like the thread, you could have just 'changed channels,' right?

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#168863 - 03/07/09 01:28 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
"I like Les. His is more real. I don't like Bear. His is bigger but fake. I'm a homo with special TV idol needs. I wish Les would magically appear in my room for me, but not Bear Grylls. Blah, blah, blah..."

SHUT UP!!!

And then followed by this:

I'm just tired of all the whining favoritist brats that feel the need to tell everybody who they like. It all sounds like a bunch of junior high school girls.


How can you call someone a "homo" and then try to call them out for being childish?
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#168868 - 03/07/09 03:53 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: dougwalkabout]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
Well, there's no need to be abusive. If you didn't like the thread, you could have just 'changed channels,' right?


If you are going to attempt to defend the response I responded to, I will speak to you as though you are that person.

Firstly, I don't think I was being abusive; only a total wussy would think what I said was abusive. But, even so, I suppose you are right. It's uncanny how a little hypocrisy can appear to sneak up on a person sometimes; and yet, I would think it more likely to suppose I was trying to criticise constructively, maybe giving "a little of one's own medicine" so to speak, in order to put things in perspective. This is a forum, not a TV show, and I would expect that people not Bear-bash or Les-bash. If you can't handle being admonished for your childishly inappropriate attitude toward people who owe you nothing, then grow up, because you will get bashed right back!

You might not agree, but I think that Les and Bear deserve equal respect. If you don't agree, then you should be advised that it is a viable argument to assume that you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can, and while that might not be the survival situation you would like to find yourself in someday, Bear's is a relevant and valued attitude to be aware of and have if need be. I guess you can't see it that way. It simply seems that people who don't like Bear's approach cannot find it within themselves to appreciate others' differences. What a bunch of homo's!

Just because you and a small handful of others don't know what respect is, doesn't mean someone has to go out of his way and do you the favor of telling you how you are perceived by the many rather than the few. So appreciate it. It's simply that if you can't be reasoned with, then your fear of not being included in the majority might help you pull your head out. I know most would simply ignore you, but there are too many not showing any concern for the value of respect and appropriateness in the world today, and for that reason, it bothers me that favoritism goes unchecked. Favoritism is the beginning of exclusionism, etc. Respect everyone equally or you are the one who is disliked!

Maybe that's the answer you were looking for. If it isn't, then assume I can't help you and simply don't ask.

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#168871 - 03/07/09 04:29 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?
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#168876 - 03/07/09 08:00 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Russ]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Quote:
You might not agree, but I think that Les and Bear deserve equal respect. If you don't agree, then you should be advised that it is a viable argument to assume that you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can, and while that might not be the survival situation you would like to find yourself in someday, Bear's is a relevant and valued attitude to be aware of and have if need be. I guess you can't see it that way. It simply seems that people who don't like Bear's approach cannot find it within themselves to appreciate others' differences. What a bunch of homo's!


That's a bit like saying Madonna and Beethoven are all the same. Even though one is a pop star best remembered for her sexual escapades while the other is recognized as a musical genius nearly 200 years after his death. You can be a Madonna fan or a Beethoven freak, to each his own. But saying they're somehow on the same level is at least inaccurate if not ridiculous.

IMHO, Bear and Les are so different in their approach they should't even be mentioned together in the same paragraph. Their shows are totally different and target a different audience.

Whether one is better than the other depends on how you look at it. Having just seen Bear's commercial on TV (Discovery channel) I'll admit Bear has a whole lot more "entertainment" and horror value. Just watching him do another backflip from a huge cliff was scary! On the other hand, I've picked up some useful outdoor tips from Les and Ray Mears so those guys have much more to offer in the educational department IME.

Whatever you pick, I don't see what this has to do with homos. I can't quite understand what you mean by using that word all over again unless it's perhaps some psychological thing having to do with your own insecurities?

Please, let's keep this civil. I think I'll rather take a little walk because it's a mighty beautiful day otuside. smile

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#168877 - 03/07/09 11:22 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Okay Trog. Just calm down.
You worded your comments a bit strongly and some people take things a bit too personally.

The rest of you calm down too.
It is not always all about you.
----
I have not read the current crop of survival books yet, and I am not sure if I ever will, so I can not really give an opinion on Les Stroud's new book.

I am a bit jaded with all the bush-craft and survival from over the years.
It seems that every year there are a raft of new books out by the latest survivalist gurus.
Some of them are good, some of them are useless and some of them would get you dead faster if you followed their advice than if you did nothing at all.
I will point out that they are all competing for market share in a small, overcrowded and shrinking niche.

My only criteria for judging these people's work is on the information quality. Your comment states your position on that quite well.
I agree with it too, but there is no need for the thread to become a flamewar about who is better.

I would much rather hear more about whether the book is worth reading.
It shouldn't matter who wrote the damn thing.


Even if Paris Hilton was the author I would still want to know how good the book was.
I suspect she might have an interesting perspective on survival, and would advise staying HOT instead of just warm.


Edited by scafool (03/07/09 01:39 PM)
Edit Reason: bold a point
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#168878 - 03/07/09 11:51 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: BruceZed]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: BruceZed
Originally Posted By: bmisf
...new Sierra Nevada episode, where he makes a trap out of his guitar in addition to Paiute deadfalls from rocks and sticks. None of them caught anything - and in fact one of the deadfalls failed from being set up improperly...


3000 KCal later he has destroyed a guitar and wasted enough calories to live for 2 days and has nothing to show for it.

"Survival is the Art of Minimal Investment for Maximum Return"


I wanted to add a brief comment on this.
Most trappers only expect a 1 in 10 capture on snares, In other words a 90% failure rate.
This is with people who are familiar with their terrain and their game.
The results become much worse for people not practiced in the arts of trapping or familiar with the area.

The main uses of snaring and trapping for a survival situation are:
a) Positive mental attitude. The person has something to keep them occupied and gives them the feeling they are doing something positive to help themselves.

b) Setting up and checking a small trap line pins the person to their location. They are not wandering off and getting even more lost.
This is a very useful thing for the SAR team.
It is easier to find a wrecked vehicle than a person on foot.
Also useful is the lost person keeping a decent signal fire going at night.

edit:
One other thing setting a small trap line does is increase your situational awareness of resources in your area. You will be looking for things within a short walk of where you are and will likely find other useful stuff. (Water sources, fire fuel, building materials, sheltering spots or plant foods.)


Edited by scafool (03/07/09 01:37 PM)
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#168882 - 03/07/09 12:29 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: scafool]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
I think that, regardless of how you feel, attacking someone personally by name calling just isnt right. Honestly, name calling is the last resort of someone who cannot articulate their argument. But, you DID articulate yours. Others have disagreed without the name calling; I fail to see why you cannot. I am not trying to be mean here; I am simply stating that you have your opinion, which you are entitled to, as is everyone else. You werent verbally attacked, yet you insulted people who have a different opinion than you. Then, in your next post, you state how they should be on equal footing (the beginnings of PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.; all set with that). Yet, you continue with the namecalling with others who dont agree with you. That is being hypocritical. You lose all credibility with the name calling. Your point may be valid; your argument, however, is not.
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#168899 - 03/07/09 07:47 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,

A bowline is a loop. A buntline hitch is a hitch. The two types of knots server different purposes so you can't really compare them. A bowline is not my personal favorite loop knot, but it's not a bad knot, especially if finished off with a safety overhand or tied in one of it's more secure variations ("water bowline", "Eskimo bowline", "double bowline", etc.) A buntline hitch is not my favorite hitch either. They are usually secure enough (depends on rope material and diameter you are hitching to), but they can be quite difficult to untie.

Quote:
I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I'm not trying to be picky, but a sheet bend is not a very secure knot. There are many many other stronger and more secure bends. Sheet bends are OK for low risk mundane jobs though, if you don't really need security in the knot. But they spill easily.

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#168900 - 03/07/09 07:48 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: oldsoldier]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


I appreciate what scafool said. oldsoldier, you could be 100% right, but I doubt it. Although, I do appreciate your words.

But, to try to reason with the likes of Russ and Tom_L would be like trying to make shiahaita edible; it's just not something I want to try to do.

I apologize for taking the thread off-topic.




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#168911 - 03/08/09 01:50 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: haertig]
Hookpunch Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 128
Originally Posted By: haertig
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,

A bowline is a loop. A buntline hitch is a hitch. The two types of knots server different purposes so you can't really compare them. A bowline is not my personal favorite loop knot, but it's not a bad knot, especially if finished off with a safety overhand or tied in one of it's more secure variations ("water bowline", "Eskimo bowline", "double bowline", etc.) A buntline hitch is not my favorite hitch either. They are usually secure enough (depends on rope material and diameter you are hitching to), but they can be quite difficult to untie.

Quote:
I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I'm not trying to be picky, but a sheet bend is not a very secure knot. There are many many other stronger and more secure bends. Sheet bends are OK for low risk mundane jobs though, if you don't really need security in the knot. But they spill easily.


I meant using a bowline versus a hitch to secure to something...say pulling a dinghy, I prefer the buntline to the bowline, and just cut it loose after wards.

So which hitch do you recommend?

Which bend do you recommend then if not the sheet bend?


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#168912 - 03/08/09 01:59 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch


Went through the book, and though Les knows more about me on most subjects, I have to say the section on knots is a bit lacking.

Les recommends a bowline...which I doubt I would trust with modern rope like nylon, I would suggest a buntline hitch instead,


I think he should have also shown how to tie two ropes together, a sheet bend knot for example.

I suggest that everyone should learn the knots listed here.

http://www.4thtyldesley.co.uk/knots/


A bowline has worked for me with almost any fiber, manilla, nylon, dacron, etc.

The more knots one knows the better. Knots are like tools. One mightdo the job, but it's better to have the right tool or knot for the job.

If I was limited to knowing only three knots, the knots would be a bowline, bend for tying two lines together (double becket bend), and a hitch (two half hitches and around turn).

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#168914 - 03/08/09 02:29 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
haertig Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/13/05
Posts: 2322
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
So which hitch do you recommend?

I can only state my personal favorites. Everyone has their own favorite(s) based on what criteria is important to them.

My favorite hitches are the ground line hitch and the ossel hitch. Depending on the type of rope, what you're attaching to, etc., one of these two usually performs wonderfully and the other one often times doesn't work as well. I also often use a slipped constrictor knot as a hitch, even though that's considered a binding knot rather than a hitch. If you don't slip it, it's pretty much a permanent hitch - not wanting to be untied at all! I consider the buntline hitch you mentioned to be an very good hitch too, except that it's almost impossible to untie if it's gotten wet and been pulled tight. The hitch I use the most (because it fits the one specific job I do the most - tying up horses) I found in a knot book by John Shaw. He calls it the horse dealer's hitch, or something like that. The horses never get it undone with their teeth, and a quick pull on the slipped loop frees them immediately (while still leaving one wrap around the post you're hitched to so you can control them). That is a very specific use for a knot and most people don't need this functionality.

Quote:
Which bend do you recommend then if not the sheet bend?

My favorites are the zeppelin bend, the very similar riggers (or hunters) bend, and a little known gem named the shake hands. I have only seen the shake hands described in one book - by Geoffrey Budworth.

If you like sheet bend style bends because you're joining dissimilar ropes, look at the simple simon (and variations, especially the simple simon under). These appear to have the similar heritage to the sheet bend, but are more secure.

For loop knots, you can't go wrong with the angler's loop or the double dragon. If you need a loop that tends to keep itself open in a circle rather than an oval, the Eskimo bowline works well. I finish this bowline variant off with a safety overhand to add security if necessary

Tying instructions/videos for most of these knots can easily be found by just typing their name into Google.

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#168937 - 03/08/09 07:46 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Russ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?



S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .

Which this is not.

This is S.T.B.R.

Survive To Be Rescued.

In SERE you do not want to be found.
In STBR you do.
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#168949 - 03/09/09 12:19 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?



S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .

Which this is not.

This is S.T.B.R.

Survive To Be Rescued.

In SERE you do not want to be found.
In STBR you do.


I disagree. When I watch Bear I get that he is moving from one place to another and not at all awaiting rescue. I do not think he is teaching SERE skills, but like I said before, what he is doing is applicable to them, which is being able to survive on the move, having "more of an SERE outlook" as I already said. Bear has a military background which is apparent in his survival strategy of finding his own way out and which reminds me of SERE. Other than the possiblity that there may have been a few episodes I didn't see where he makes camp and awaits rescue somewhere, I don't know what you are talking about.

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#168953 - 03/09/09 02:12 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Quote:
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?


Quote:
S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .



There are of course some hotels around where some SERE skills are required. The Silver Rock in Barbados comes to mind. eek And even in some excellent 5 star luxury hotels I have ended up spending the night out in a location such as a rocky outcrop, without any shelter, with no food and water in the middle of a island in the hotel pool. blush






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#168963 - 03/09/09 11:52 AM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Mike_H Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 612
Loc: SE PA
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor

There are of course some hotels around where some SERE skills are required. The Silver Rock in Barbados comes to mind. eek And even in some excellent 5 star luxury hotels I have ended up spending the night out in a location such as a rocky outcrop, without any shelter, with no food and water in the middle of a island in the hotel pool. blush

That was brilliant!


Edited by Mike_H (03/09/09 11:52 AM)
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#168965 - 03/09/09 12:06 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Hookpunch]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: Hookpunch
I suggest that everyone should learn the knots listed here. http://www.4thtyldesley.co.uk/knots/
That's 15 knots. The more the better, of course, but I'd put a core, "must know" repertoire at half that. (And it would include the Constrictor Knot, which that list omits.)
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#168966 - 03/09/09 12:20 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Brangdon]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Quote:
There are of course some hotels around where some SERE skills are required. The Silver Rock in Barbados comes to mind. eek And even in some excellent 5 star luxury hotels I have ended up spending the night out in a location such as a rocky outcrop, without any shelter, with no food and water in the middle of a island in the hotel pool. blush


That is a challenging survival situation indeed, more so if you have to share those meager resources with a couple of beautiful exotic girls ready for anything...

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#168968 - 03/09/09 12:32 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Tom_L]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Bear could show us how it's done. He should shoot an episode on that island, I'm sure his producers could rough it there between takes.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#168981 - 03/09/09 05:44 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
Originally Posted By: Leigh_Ratcliffe
Originally Posted By: Russ
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
. . . you are perceived by many as a favoritist homo seeking sympathy for the fact that Bear can approach survival with more of an SERE outlook than you can. . .
I don't recall being able to take the night off and sleep in a hotel during SERE. It was a long time ago, but that's something I think I'd remember. When did you go through SERE? Did you stay in a hotel at night?



S.E.R.Eis Survival. Evasion. Resistance. Escape .

Which this is not.

This is S.T.B.R.

Survive To Be Rescued.

In SERE you do not want to be found.
In STBR you do.


I disagree. When I watch Bear I get that he is moving from one place to another and not at all awaiting rescue. I do not think he is teaching SERE skills, but like I said before, what he is doing is applicable to them, which is being able to survive on the move, having "more of an SERE outlook" as I already said. Bear has a military background which is apparent in his survival strategy of finding his own way out and which reminds me of SERE. Other than the possibility that there may have been a few episodes I didn't see where he makes camp and awaits rescue somewhere, I don't know what you are talking about.


The normal advice in a situation in a survival situation is that you should remain where you are.

However, that comes with the caveat that you should only do so provided it is safe to do so.

In a situation you have to assess the situation and decide what your best course of action is. It might be better to stay put. Then again there might be a hazard(s) that makes moving elsewhere advisable.

Lower altitude, to water, shelter etc.

One scenario that Bear presented was the one of being stuck on a desert island. In this case there was no fresh water source. Desalinating seawater by boiling was impractical because of insufficent fuel and rain for water was intermittent at best. Staying put simply meant dying from thirst. Under those circumstances, constructing a raft and trying for another island is about your only hope.

Chances are that you will perish at sea. But you might make it.
You will die if you remain.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#168983 - 03/09/09 06:15 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: ]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
Go on a survival outing with an accredited wilderness school to learn about survival.


Can you direct me to the authority that accredits wilderness schools?

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#168986 - 03/09/09 06:48 PM Re: Les Stroud releases survival book [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Troglodyte007
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
Originally Posted By: Troglodyte007
Go on a survival outing with an accredited wilderness school to learn about survival.


Can you direct me to the authority that accredits wilderness schools?


By "accredited" I mean widely known or widely respected or widely acknowledged as being a genuine place of learning.

"Accredited" can mean different things to different people, so I will try not to think your question is sarcastic by trying to point you in the right direction thusly (in case you took it literally):

Pinnacle
Woodland Survival Crafts
Wilderness Gathering
WMS
Aces

There are many, many more accredited schools all over the world, and there are many different authorities as well.

It would probably be more beneficial to you to search for them on your own, as each seems to dance to a different drum.

I hope that helps.


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