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#153030 - 10/24/08 12:34 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife (hori hori glam) [Re: big_al]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yep Big Al, pretty much that is the kit, except I don't see the pick/prying tip. Yes, multi-taskers and compromises make up a lot of the gear we are interested in. That's okay, I just try to find the best bang for my buck. I love my Leatherman Wave, it is the tool I used more than all the others I own combined. Compromise or not, it gets the job done.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#153278 - 10/26/08 09:00 AM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: Chisel]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1324
I have a question about two survival knives.

First the pilot survival knife



Why is it not mentioned often in discussions like this one ?

While I am not interested in it for the purpose stated in THIS thread , it seems to me like a very verstaile knife, with saw teeth on the back, and two holes for making a spear , and the butt can be used for hammering.

It looks like a great design in my opinion.
Even the price isn't that much
Do you see anything wrong with it ?


OK, the other knife is the tracker.



I keep wondering

Why the straiught edge is divided in two parts ?
Also, why the saw edge is only half of the blade length ?


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#153279 - 10/26/08 10:53 AM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: Chisel]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
The USAF survival knife is not bad, but it is a bit overbuilt IMHO. In the sense of the blade being slightly too thick for optimal cutting performance.

The Ontario Spec Plus version is worse still. I bought one online a while ago - sure looked nice but the blade is even thicker than the original USAF issue. Even with heavy grinding I was not able to reduce the blade profile to an acceptable level so the knife was pretty much useless as a cutting tool. It was outperformed many, many times by a cheap Mora and even by the genuine KABAR. Which, while fairly strong, is still not too thick for serious cutting.

The sawback is not really a saw. IIRC it was designed to saw through plexiglas. Whether that works I can't say because I've never tried. On wood it's pretty much useless except for making shallow grooves (might be useful at making traps or snares, but that's about it in a survival situation). On metal it's worse than useless. Simply put, the blade is way too thick for a saw so a real folding saw would do a far better job.

IMHO a sawback has no place on a knife but then again, your mileage may vary.

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#153292 - 10/26/08 02:45 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: Tom_L]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1324
Well it doesn't vary by that much .

Thanks Tom I have learnt something.

Now I know why not so many people talk about it. And also now I am reconsidering the saw back idea as a whole. There are a number of small folding saws in the market that I think will not take much BOB space beside the knife.

Any comments on the second knife (the Tracker) and why it is designed this way ? Why the blade is divided in two halves like this ? And is the saw back of the Tracker any good ?

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#153305 - 10/26/08 03:50 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: Chisel]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
The second blade seems like an attempt to combine a skinner style point with a draw type or splitting edge closer in. IMHO, the knife is too much a compromise and not enough purpose. Maybe a good theory that just doesn't work in practice. Not sure I would find much use for it.

For a saw, I prefer a chain saw; the kind that fit in a can about the size of a snuff tin and is drawn back and forth using your hands, or a makeshift frame. Small enough to EDC if you want, but very functional, at least for cutting something softer than steel.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#153372 - 10/27/08 02:45 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: benjammin]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Yeah, just what Benjammin said. With such basic tools as knives there is a simple rule to follow - if the design is too exotic or unusual it most likely won't work. People have been using knives since the dawn of time and have figured out long ago what works and what doesn't. Look at Bowies or Scandinavian knives - their shape hasn't really changed a bit in the past 1000 years. Which speaks volumes.

For hard use I would always pick a more or less traditional knife. Modern materials are great and all the extra stuff such as Kydex sheaths, pocket clips, the Wave hook etc. may be great add-ons but the blade itself shouldn't look like it came out of a Star Wars movie IMHO.

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#153389 - 10/27/08 04:23 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: NightHiker]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1324
( and it's even got the hollow handle for whatever you can fit it in )

I have seen some of those mini shovel/pick/ wahtever with hollow handle. As everyone said, these things are too much of a compromise. The shovel was not really good for much , the saw is for decoration more than real use, the pick will break the first time I use it for prying, and the hollow handle can take a few matches, and maybe a whistle, but no knife of any size.

Now have to re-engineer the last resort "multi-tool". That means to store several tools in a ziploc bag at the bottom of my BOB.
The idea is to keep it as light as possible, as VERSATILE as possible.


How is this combination ?

A simple knife like a Mora or equivalent,
A 6 inch folding saw,
and an SP8 machete

BTW, if a tool has "saw teeth" on the back is that BAD and should I definitely shift to straight back. Or is a saw teeth back only "useless" . I mean will it hurt in any way to have the saw teeth even I am not going to utilize them ?

The teeth are derfintely BAD if I try to hit the machete or knife with a hammer to chop something., The teeth on the back will be damamged and the hammer head will be damaged too. So, that is one disadvatage


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#153391 - 10/27/08 04:50 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: Chisel]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
The sawback concept is hampered by useable length and more grevious, thickness of blade. The infamous US survival knife is more chisel than saw. It works very well tearing through thin aluminium and plexiglass.In green wood you can make very precise notches for your paracord binding, if you are concerned with precise notches the other side of the knife can cut in less time and precious energy.

My concern is the structural integrity of a knife with sawteeth. The spine is just what it implies; the backbone and support for the blade. The idea of stock removal along this critical area and then banging away with a billet of wood isn't comforting, exptoc metallurgy or robustness not withstanding.

My first experience with a 'survival knife' was Arctic Survival School in Alaska. My issue knife was being banged on to split wood and in the sub zero cold made a sound no Hollywood sound effects engineer could duplicate. It had snapped @ 1/4" forward of the guard from a saw gullet diagonally down to the edge.

My instructor gave me a disgusted look, I expected my pay docked for the relief of taxpayers and a general courtmartial or something. He merely reached into a flight bag and pulled out a spare Camillus.I had this epiphany he probably wouldn't be around if I really crashed in the arctic circle. Like everyone else, I soon acquired my own personal knife.

A lot of people carry these blades, have squeezed amazing chores from the features ( you can scale fish with those sawbacks,collect lichen and grate wild onions.)

I figured if I needed a saw, a good swedish bowsaw blade in my ruck is easilly carried and a field expedient handle made.

I do have a Chris Reeves Aviator, a gift. I pack it on my rare sailplane and light aircraft adventures. It impresses my airport acquaintances who carry NOTHING.

The one time we did make an emergency lanidng, in a aircraft so slow I almost got out to push it down like a car out of gas, I was all prepared with my PSk and knife, emergency food and water. Southern California lemon orchards are scary places at night; coyotes chasing rabbits, the far off sound of illegal cock fights with people more dangerous than the Bedu in FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX and skunks everywhere.

This old campesino orchard worker in a beat up truck pulled up and spoiled it all. I was all set to build a lemon treehouse with my knife before nightfall.


Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (10/27/08 05:05 PM)

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#153404 - 10/27/08 06:10 PM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: ]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
There was a useful sawback, once upon a time: swiss sappers bayonet. It had an 18 inch blade and a steel scabbard, and was perched in a place of honor above the knife display in the village army-navy store in 1962. I had saved up the money to buy a mercator folder, and did so but was smitten with the mirror-polished stainless steel blade, double row of offset saw teeth, and elegant wooden grips. The mercator was 2 bucks; the swiss gem was priced at a princely $12.50-In comparioson, mundane M-1 carbine and garand bayonets were available at $5 each, complete with a broken tipped scabbard. When I finally acquired it, I discovered that it would indeed cut wood, but found it burdensome for EDC.
_________________________
Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#153460 - 10/28/08 05:28 AM Re: Nother Q about survival knife [Re: ]
Chisel Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/05/05
Posts: 1324
Since there is no ONE knife fit all purposes, I am adopting the concept of survival "multi--tool". I am now looking for a fixed blade sheath that will take two smallish knives ( one straight edge and one serrated)

I never like the partailly serrated knives. If they are small then each section is too small for anything. If the knife is big, well, I may have problems using it in urban environments. And since I am 99% in urban environment, I may not be able to use it at all. Two small fixed knives seem a better way to go for my case.

Have you seen any sheath for two small knives?

BTW,I have seen sheaths holding one big knife and another smaller one. But what I am looking for is a sheath that holds two knives of similar sizes side by side.

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