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#149632 - 09/19/08 10:54 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: Russ]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
Your right about the Mirror, I normally carry a Glass Heliograph (Airforce Type) in my First Aid Kit, but the compromise was to use the plastic one in my lifejacket and keep the good one in my first aid kit in my Olive Jar.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#149638 - 09/19/08 11:43 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: BruceZed]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
ok, I'll bite - what's an olive jar?

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#149656 - 09/20/08 03:20 AM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: falcon5000]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3219
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I've dumped a canoe or two, but thankfully not in an ice-cold river. I've also been fat-fingered a time or three, but thankfully not full-on hypothermic.

I think you've created a decent backup kit.

The big thing that catches my eye is "calories -- lack thereof." You've obviously thought about this. But IMO, on the edge of hypothermia, you need to buy time. For me, a handful of Werther's Originals for instant sugar (and a hug) plus a Power Bar to blunt the sugar crash later could get the internal furnace roaring and an external fire built.

Maybe stow these in a bright red clip-on bag that you remove at night?

My 2¢.

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#149661 - 09/20/08 03:27 AM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: Russ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...I guess they could be if you were seriously near sighted..."

Actually, it can go the other way too. I am far sighted, need my bi (actually tri) focals to see anything close up. I would be hard pressed to do a lot of necessary things without my glasses. So I have lots of spares, stuffed everywhere...
_________________________
OBG

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#149670 - 09/20/08 09:09 AM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: falcon5000]
MedicineMan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 43
Loc: upper east TN
TeacherRO brings up something interesting when he mentioned the 'pocket on the back' of his PFD.
I've got 24 sea kayaks, paddle on average 200 days a year, have attended too many kayak symposiums to remember.
One thing I noticed on PFDs of British origin are pockets on the back....a rare thing on USA made PFDs.
But back to what to add to the list and in this vane of the back pocket, I would whole heartedly suggest a minimalist instantaneous shelter in that back pocket...something to immediately block the wind, retard the rain, hold in some heat.
Something like this:
http://www.seakayakgeorgia.com/catalog.php?item=34&all=yes
If you have a mini-candle lantern all the better. When wearing one of these:
http://www.kokatat.com/product_detail.asp?code=psc
I've squatted down and placed the candle lanter on the ground but between my knees and inside the storm cag-amazing what kind of heat builds up and quickly.
Remembering the rules of 3 its a no brainer that shelter and hypothermia have to be dealth with.
I read the post about lossing a PFD, surely it can happen and at least on my neck lanyard I've got a RAT-3,a Doug Ritter squeezy thumb light (can't remember the exact model name), a whislte, and a mini-ferrocium rod--better than nothing; but if I've go my PFD when I get to shore I'll make that guy in 'Castaway' green with envy.
Here on this site we all know about 'BOBs', in my paddling circle we all have hypothermia bags, some of us carry them in the cockpit of the kayak, others in the day hatch...my hypothermia kit is composed of these two items:
1. Hilleberg BivAnorak
http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewBivanorak.htm
2. Bod-i-bag
These two items are also carried when I day hike, the combination of the two is remarkable in its simplicity and the ability to move/cook/ or sleep.
PLBs are awesome for sure....just make sure when they get there you are still alive smile
http://www.bodibag.com/


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#149733 - 09/20/08 11:15 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: MedicineMan]
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
I think someone has to chime inhere and point out that every piece of gear you stuff into or onto a life jacket is going to make the life jacket heavier, bulkier and less comfortable. While a lack of comfort and extra bulk and weight may be an acceptable if your a parajumper diving in after drowning boaters on a stormy sea the biggest problem for most people is not a lack of gear in their life jacket. It is simply getting ourselves and others to wear a life jacket.

Load a lifejacket down with a bunch of gear may end up being counterproductive simply because the weight and bulk make it too uncomfortable to put on and wear every time your on deck.

Also it should be pointed out that if you fall over twenty miles offshore most of that gear is just extra weight and an impediment. A mirror, a small combination flare/smoke signal and a knife may come in handy but the compass, candle, firestarter and blanket are useless.

On the other hand if your failing to claw your way off a lee shore in a storm and the rocks and wilderness shore is close enough to have some chance of getting to in one piece. The land oriented survival gear may prove useful if your forced to jump and swim for it.

The wider point being that the selection of survival gear to carry varies widely depending on the situation your in.

For every-day generally mild condition sailing close to a well populated shore the biggest obstacle is simply getting yourself to wear a life jacket. Everything else is secondary.

Offshore your concern is first simply wearing the life jacket and, if you get separated from your boat, getting spotted so you can be rescued. The weight and bulk of the fire starting kit would be better served including something to help you get spotted. And none of the gear will help you if the life jacket isn't comfortable enough to wear so you have it on when that boom sweeps you over the side.

Faced with a lee shore too bloody close for comfort, help hours away ,and nothing but rocks and bears ashore the survival on land gear might come in handy if you make it to shore alive. Of course, for me, a question is if the best place for this gear might not be in a Ditch bag. Hopefully one that you can use as a float as you fight your way ashore. Ashore it might be nice if the stuff was in a small backpack.

Instead of loading down your life jacket all the time the better course may be to keep all but the most light and basic gear, useful in all situations; perhaps just a small light, whistle, and knife; and keeping other gear in separate small bags that can be attached to or stuffed in the life jacket to optimize the kit to the situation.

In fair weather close to an occupied shore you just have the jacket and the few basic pieces. Offshore you add a packet of distress signals. With that lee shore coming up fast you go with that and extra survival gear you may want if you make it to shore.

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#149737 - 09/20/08 11:46 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: Art_in_FL]
BruceZed Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/06/08
Posts: 319
Loc: Canada
As a general point I agree with you, but in this case my lifejacket is built to carry someone who weight up to 300lbs and I weight about 210. So my 2 lbs of survival gear makes no real difference to my ability to float. With this design of lifejacket I cannot tell at all that I am carrying anything. I just finished a 10 day canoe trip and it worked great. Different lifejacket/pdf designs can make a real difference.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky
Chief Instructor
Boreal Wilderness Institute
boreal.net

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#149739 - 09/20/08 11:50 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: Art_in_FL]
Woodsloafer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Upstate NewYork
I'm assuming the original poster is not concerned with off-shore survival situation since he mentioned using the PFD in his canoe.

I agree over stuffing a panel type PFD makes it uncomfortable for lengthy wear. On occasion, I wear a fanny pack as a "bail-out" kit container in my solo canoe.
When I recently began kayak paddling, I found any pocket or belt based kit uncomfortable and makes getting into or out off a kayak cockpit, especially with a cover in place, difficult at best.
In addition to a basic kit in the PFD pocket(s), take a look at the Lotus Design EFT Pack. It rides high enough on the back of a panel PFD to clear kayak seat backs. The problem is, it's out of production, but may be found yet at some kayak shops or on e-bay.
Take a look at www.watertribe.com for some good canoe/kayak based kits.

_________________________
"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."

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#149750 - 09/21/08 01:25 AM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: falcon5000]
CANOEDOGS Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 1853
Loc: MINNESOTA


should i stay or should i go???



after paddleing for several days thru sheltered small lakes i came down from the highlands to find Lac La Croix a wind whipped mess..i went and by the end of the day i surfed into the carry at the end of the lake..
have a look at my overboard vest..i have what after 20+ years of solo canoe tripping what i would want if i went over and lost all my gear execept my PFD and it's gear..lots of way to make a fire.something to make a wind and waterproof shelter and hot food and a way to cook it..no compass,i'm not going anywhere,no big knife,i'm not going to have to dress any game..so on.
next time your out pick a place at random..and not a "good spot" where you could camp but something full of brush and rocks that you would be happy to wash up into and try out your kit.
if you really want to get into it land the canoe and swim out
a bit and back in--did your matches get wet from the drips off your clothes--did the heads "butter" when you tryed to strike them with wet hands?? could you find a place to shelter and make a fire in less that 10 minutes??--all tricky questions..and i would try and get the answers before you pack a PFD with gear..
i left out alot of first aid gear in favor of more food..
this year i made some changes from last years PFD with some good advice i got after i posted my kit.the canoe season is comming to a close in another month or so and when it does i'll break down my kit and post a few photos of the changes i made..

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#149767 - 09/21/08 04:17 PM Re: Lifejacket Critical Survival Items [Re: falcon5000]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Compact source of immediate calories.

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