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#149112 - 09/16/08 10:24 AM Re: Prepardedness [Re: Eric]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I suspect that Eric is correct. It's what they know and how they function. They aren't military.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#149116 - 09/16/08 10:45 AM Re: Prepardedness [Re: Russ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
I agree also. FEMA has a habit of NOT hiring those people who are experienced in Proper Planning. It's similar to hiring Phd's without any common sense.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
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#149158 - 09/16/08 02:08 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: wildman800]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
My limited experience with FEMA indicates that they focus more on chain of command issues than actual boots on the ground. I give you NIMS (National Incident Management System) as an example. I'm not saying that NIMS is a bad thing because it has its place, but they place a great deal of emphasis on this system and, based on the FEMA responses that I have witnessed, it has failed miserably at actually accomplishing much in terms of an adequate response. It sure makes for some interesting seating arrangements, though! smirk


Edited by Grouch (09/16/08 02:10 PM)

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#150158 - 09/26/08 11:14 AM Re: Prepardedness [Re: Grouch]
ki4buc Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 710
Loc: Augusta, GA
Last I was a aware, the President of the United States can activate National Guard units. However, the idea with disasters is the lowest political subdivision handles the emergency. If they cannot handle it, the next highest takes the load. If they cannot, it repeats until it hits FEMA.

A lot of changes need to be made, and until every politician realizes that disaster response ( just like military actions ) is not an area that politics should be involved in the decision making. Let the people who know what to do, do what they need to do.

Again, everyone needs to look to Florida for how to handle hurricanes. When I saw the response ( on the news, didn't get a lot of the small details ) to Gustav and Ike, I saw a lot of the things Florida did. Well, except those expensive pre-storm airlifts of people that just don't know how to follow instructions. The big thing that worries me about that is they haven't learned to be self-sufficient. The government came and saved their ass. A lot of people are going to have to die for failing to evacuate before people get the message.


Edited by ki4buc (09/26/08 11:14 AM)

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#150165 - 09/26/08 12:39 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: wildman800]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: wildman800
FEMA needs to enter an area with the campers, equipment, and supplies to sustain themselves, not by grabbing up what little remaining resources that the refugees/evacuees are depending on & utilizing! They need their own self sustaining capability as the military has and uses.


This is how DMATs operate. We arrive with 3 days of essentials in our personal kit.

We also used to have our own caches consisting of all the equipment necessary to set up our field hospital as well as additional sustainment equipment like MREs and water purifiers, that we brought with us in trucks. However, the Feds, in their infinite wisdom, has removed our team caches and turned them over to private contractors to maintain and deliver to us (in theory)once we are on site. This did not work well in our most recent experience.

Among other problems, supplies were disorganized, missing, expired or otherwise incorrect. Also, it seems no one gave any thought as to how we were supposed to unload giant metal containers weighing several hundred pounds each from the back of commercial trucks without a lift-gate, forklift or anything other than muscle power, in a vacant lot in the middle of a disaster area. We adapted and overcame, but we weren't happy, and spent untold worker-hours sorting out the mess. Its a good thing we weren't met by hundreds of patients needing immediate care.

Jeff



Edited by Jeff_McCann (09/26/08 02:11 PM)

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#150171 - 09/26/08 01:50 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: ki4buc]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: ki4buc
Again, everyone needs to look to Florida for how to handle hurricanes.


Florida is doing good job in disaster preparedness. They have also recognized that the capacity of the federal government to respond to disasters is deteriorating and they are actively stepping up to fill in the gaps. For example, they are creating and equipping their own state versions of DMATs (Disaster Medical Assistance Teams), called State Medical Response Teams. I believe California is doing the same.

Jeff

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#150173 - 09/26/08 03:06 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: wildman800]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: wildman800
Maybe FEMA could have an Eastern, Central, and Western storage/base of operations. They could then deploy the assets from those staging bases to the affected areas.

That would not require much of an investment.


First, FEMA is not an operational, boots on the ground, type of agency. They are more of a management, oversight, tasseled loafers under desks sort of agency.

Second, they aren't the only element of the federal bureaucracy directly involved in federal emergency response. Nor do they exercise oversight, much less coordination and control, over other federal players.

Third, local and state authority is not pre-empted once the feds get involved. The state and local guys and gals still call the shots in their respective jurisdictions and areas of responsibility. For example, I hear that the Texas authorities told the Feds "um, no thanks, we'll handle it" to at least some aspects of the proposed federal response to H. Ike. It's a matter of cooperation.

FEMA works best as a resource and funding agency to underwrite local, state and federal operations. It doesn't seem to do too well when it tries to actually run operations. This was a main reason why Congress removed the National Disaster Medical System from FEMA and DHS and moved it back to DHHS.

As for FEMA setting up a system of regional "storage/base of operations," my recent experience with this was not reassuring, to say the least. I think it would be best if they simply contracted with the already robust and efficient commercial system for acquiring needed relief supplies, from the same folks who keep your grocery shelves stocked nationwide on a daily basis.

Terminal delivery logistics may require governmental assets like the NG, but could also be contracted. I trust Wal Mart and General Foods to deliver what's needed on time and on site a lot more than I trust FEMA's ability to do so.

On the other hand, I am in favor of a widely distributed system for "Strategic foodstuffs Reserves" along the lines of the National Petroleum Reserve" for national emergencies involving the food supply.

Jeff

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#150175 - 09/26/08 03:43 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: ki4buc]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: ki4buc
Last I was a aware, the President of the United States can activate National Guard units.

The Federal law seems rather specific about what situations National Guard can be pressed into Federal service. Congressional legislation in 2002 did allow the President to activate National Guard units to send to the Middle East, but that is a special case.

I don't think most weather-related disasters would fall under Title 10.

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#150176 - 09/26/08 04:18 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: Arney]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: ki4buc
Last I was a aware, the President of the United States can activate National Guard units.

The Federal law seems rather specific about what situations National Guard can be pressed into Federal service. Congressional legislation in 2002 did allow the President to activate National Guard units to send to the Middle East, but that is a special case.

I don't think most weather-related disasters would fall under Title 10.


Of course, as you know, the Governor can also call his or her state's National Guard into service for state and local disasters, as well. I also think they can do so for service in another state at that state's request.

Jeff

P.S. Check out the "Brigade homeland tour" thread for an interesting related development.


Edited by Jeff_McCann (09/26/08 04:23 PM)

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#150179 - 09/26/08 04:43 PM Re: Prepardedness [Re: Jeff_M]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Jeff_McCann
Of course, as you know, the Governor can also call his or her state's National Guard into service for state and local disasters, as well. I also think they can do so for service in another state at that state's request.

Pretty much anything could happen with a given state's National Guard, if the governor consents. A state's National Guard could be federalized in situations outside of Title 10 if the governor consents.

Remember that Gov. Kathleen Blanco was asked--not ordered--by the President to federalize the Louisiana National Guard but she refused the request, as is her perogative as governor. The situation didn't fit the Title 10 provisions so the President didn't have any authority to simply take over the Guard.

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