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#143606 - 08/11/08 05:37 AM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: red]
rly45acp Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 18
Loc: SW Indiana
Originally Posted By: red
Originally Posted By: rly45acp
(snip) polysporin actually allows the wound to heal more quickly than neosporin. (snip)

Also, you should look at the environment you are in. In humid, jungle like conditions, neosporin and other ointments work great, but in certain arid conditions flushing the wound with a betadine rinse is better. A powerdered form of neosporin can also be used for certain types of wounds.

You can't have everything with you, so I now carry the aforementioned small spray bottle of hydrogen peroxide, a few betadine swabs and a few quart size zip lock bags. I fill the bag with water, clip one bottom corner (small clip) and squeeze the bag to get an effective stream to flush the wound. This whole kit weighs little and takes up a very small space in my FAK.

As with all things we humans do, YMMV.


Neosporin=neomycin, polymyxin B, and bacitracin.

Polysporin=polymyxin B, and bacitracin.

To say "Polysporin actually allows the wound to heal more quickly than neosporin" is nonsensical. That would imply that having an extra antibiotic on board would retard healing. If you are talking about the allergic potential for Neosporin, then yes, there is a higher incidence of allergic reactions to Neosporin than to Polysporin (the neomycin may have as high as 20% allergic rxn) But this does not mean that Neosporin heals any slower than Polysporin.

I disagree that flushing with betadine is better than treating with a topical antibiotic. Betadine won't stay resident is the wound as long as the ointment. Why would neosporin work less well in a dry environment? It works great in my state: a high plains, arid environment.

Flushing a wound is great, adding some betadine is a good idea. But leave the hydrogen peroxide at home. It's heavy (liquid) and is controversial...plus it hurts! There have been studies done comparing flushing wounds with sterile water or saline vs. just tap water...guess what? Tap water may be just as good!


To say it's nonsensical is a bit of a personal attack, don't you think? First off, it's what they told us in First Responser class and second, it's based on an actual study:

Choosing an Over-the-Counter Ointment
Look under "First Aid" on any pharmacy shelf. It can be a consumer's nightmare. What to choose? An antibacterial ointment? Perhaps something labeled "first-aid cream." Or should you choose the spray the advertisements claim doesn't sting?

In one study, James J. Leyden, M.D., compared the effectiveness of nine over-the-counter products on wound healing. He found that some products are faster than others when it comes to the time it takes to mend minor cuts, scrapes, and burns. Here's what the research showed.

Polysporin (active ingredients: polymyxin B, bacitracin ointment): 8.2 days
Neosporin (active ingredients: neomycin, polymyxin B, bacitracin ointment): 9.2 days
Johnson & Johnson First Aid Cream (wound protectant with no antibiotic agent): 9.8 days
Mercurochrome (active ingredient: merbromin): 13.1 days
No treatment: 13.3 days
Bactine spray (active ingredient: benzalkonium chloride): 14.2 days
Merthiolate (active ingredient: thimerosol): 14.2 days
Hydrogen peroxide 3%: 14.3 days
Campho-Phenique (active ingredients: camphor, phenol): 15.4 days
Tincture of iodine: 15.7 days

If you do a Google search on Dr. Leyden, you'll see he has pretty good credentials. So call him "nonsensical", not me. I'm not a doctor and never claimed to be one, but was merely passing on information shared in our class since it was a state approved class, but who know? Maybe they were wrong.


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#143612 - 08/11/08 09:50 AM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: red]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
The Department of Defense did a study about irrigating wounds with sterile saline vs. chlorinated water, and found the chlorinated water to be of more benefit in a field environment.

If you can't Google it, I've got a copy around here somewhere I can post. Realize that this was NOT tap water, but specific water/chlorine mix. Don't remember if the water was sterile beforehand.
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#143725 - 08/11/08 06:40 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: red]
clarktx Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 250
Loc: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: red
To say "Polysporin actually allows the wound to heal more quickly than neosporin" is nonsensical. That would imply that having an extra antibiotic on board would retard healing.


Delivery agent could make a difference too. Everything has tradeoffs.
_________________________
You can't teach experience.

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#143825 - 08/12/08 06:58 AM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Arney]
MedicineMan Offline
Newbie

Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 43
Loc: upper east TN
bacitracin/neosporin do make excellent fire excelerants post using your fire steel smile

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#143861 - 08/12/08 02:27 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: MedicineMan]
Fitzoid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 289
Loc: WI, MA, and NYC
Damn, I just sliced my finger open testing the edge of a sharpened blade for burrs. Cheap knives may not hold their edges for long, but they sure are easy to get ridiculously sharp. (We're talking scalpel sharp here.)

Thank God for bacitracin zinc, band aids, and that the universe can be forgiving to morons... grin
_________________________
-----
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading." Henny Youngman

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#143874 - 08/12/08 03:13 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Blast]
jcurphy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 48
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Neosporin to prevent infection and therefore promote faster healing. It contains Bacitracin which is an excellent topical antibiotic against most pathogens. Hydrogen Peroxide, while a good wound antiseptic/cleanser, actually slows down the healing time. Betadine (iodine solution) is also an excellent antiseptic and is the better alternative to hydrogen peroxide.

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#143878 - 08/12/08 03:25 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: jcurphy]
jcurphy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 48
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Just a quick add on to prior post, Betadine (povidone/iodine) is a true germicide, meaning that it kills pathogens outright, which is why it's used by surgeons as an antiseptic scrub. Neosporin or any antibiotic cream for that matter does not necessarily kill pathogens. Many simply inhibit their growth, while others have been around for so long that antibiotic resistance has developed. Remember, antibiotics originated from bacteria as a means to kill or inhibit their competition. As a result pathogens have been selected for resistance over time. This is not the case with a true germicide.

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#143881 - 08/12/08 03:34 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: jcurphy]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1065
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: jcurphy
Neosporin to prevent infection and therefore promote faster healing. It contains Bacitracin which is an excellent topical antibiotic against most pathogens. Hydrogen Peroxide, while a good wound antiseptic/cleanser, actually slows down the healing time. Betadine (iodine solution) is also an excellent antiseptic and is the better alternative to hydrogen peroxide.


Any studies to show this?

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#143889 - 08/12/08 03:53 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: clearwater]
jcurphy Offline
Newbie

Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 48
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I just read about this in my Microbiology textbook wink

Here's a link I found quickly enough...even though it refers to Veterinary practice...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080211065619AAkhVX1

Hydrogen peroxide damages healthy tissue surrounding the infection, which doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used, just that it does indeed slow down the healing process - to what degree probably depends on the severity, type, location, surface area, depth etc., of the infected tissue. I've also read that it actually promotes the formation of free radicals which can also damage healthy tissue.

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#143939 - 08/12/08 11:26 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: rly45acp]
red Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 175
Originally Posted By: rly45acp
Originally Posted By: red
Originally Posted By: rly45acp
(snip) polysporin actually allows the wound to heal more quickly than neosporin. (snip)

Also, you should look at the environment you are in. In humid, jungle like conditions, neosporin and other ointments work great, but in certain arid conditions flushing the wound with a betadine rinse is better. A powerdered form of neosporin can also be used for certain types of wounds.

You can't have everything with you, so I now carry the aforementioned small spray bottle of hydrogen peroxide, a few betadine swabs and a few quart size zip lock bags. I fill the bag with water, clip one bottom corner (small clip) and squeeze the bag to get an effective stream to flush the wound. This whole kit weighs little and takes up a very small space in my FAK.

As with all things we humans do, YMMV.


Neosporin=neomycin, polymyxin B, and bacitracin.

Polysporin=polymyxin B, and bacitracin.

To say "Polysporin actually allows the wound to heal more quickly than neosporin" is nonsensical. That would imply that having an extra antibiotic on board would retard healing. If you are talking about the allergic potential for Neosporin, then yes, there is a higher incidence of allergic reactions to Neosporin than to Polysporin (the neomycin may have as high as 20% allergic rxn) But this does not mean that Neosporin heals any slower than Polysporin.

I disagree that flushing with betadine is better than treating with a topical antibiotic. Betadine won't stay resident is the wound as long as the ointment. Why would neosporin work less well in a dry environment? It works great in my state: a high plains, arid environment.

Flushing a wound is great, adding some betadine is a good idea. But leave the hydrogen peroxide at home. It's heavy (liquid) and is controversial...plus it hurts! There have been studies done comparing flushing wounds with sterile water or saline vs. just tap water...guess what? Tap water may be just as good!


To say it's nonsensical is a bit of a personal attack, don't you think? First off, it's what they told us in First Responser class and second, it's based on an actual study:

Choosing an Over-the-Counter Ointment
Look under "First Aid" on any pharmacy shelf. It can be a consumer's nightmare. What to choose? An antibacterial ointment? Perhaps something labeled "first-aid cream." Or should you choose the spray the advertisements claim doesn't sting?

In one study, James J. Leyden, M.D., compared the effectiveness of nine over-the-counter products on wound healing. He found that some products are faster than others when it comes to the time it takes to mend minor cuts, scrapes, and burns. Here's what the research showed.

Polysporin (active ingredients: polymyxin B, bacitracin ointment): 8.2 days
Neosporin (active ingredients: neomycin, polymyxin B, bacitracin ointment): 9.2 days
Johnson & Johnson First Aid Cream (wound protectant with no antibiotic agent): 9.8 days
Mercurochrome (active ingredient: merbromin): 13.1 days
No treatment: 13.3 days
Bactine spray (active ingredient: benzalkonium chloride): 14.2 days
Merthiolate (active ingredient: thimerosol): 14.2 days
Hydrogen peroxide 3%: 14.3 days
Campho-Phenique (active ingredients: camphor, phenol): 15.4 days
Tincture of iodine: 15.7 days

If you do a Google search on Dr. Leyden, you'll see he has pretty good credentials. So call him "nonsensical", not me. I'm not a doctor and never claimed to be one, but was merely passing on information shared in our class since it was a state approved class, but who know? Maybe they were wrong.



Sorry if you took the word "nonsensical" personally. It was not meant that way. It was the phrase that didn't make sense to me. Not you as a person. You are a very rational and bright person, obviously. You don't work as a First Responder without having good judgment, problem-solving skills, etc. So again, I apologize if you took it that I was saying you personally are nonsensical.

Okay, now...NERD ALERT! Do not read on unless you really like nerdy doctorate stuff!

I actually prefer Polysporin d/t less chance of allergic reactions, but I know a few clinicians who think that's blown out of proportion and they still prefer Neosporin. Included in that camp is Dr. JJ Leyden, who says that fearing to use Neosporin is ridiculous because you have to use such large amounts to get a systemic reaction to it.

My point is this: adding neomycin to the polymyxin B and bacitracin isn't just additive, which would be better than the two alone, it is synergistic. Remember, 1+1=2, then 1+1+1=6! That's synergy. There are studies that are published in peer-reviewed journals that support this theory.

Dr. Leyden is a demigod in dermatology. I wouldn't question his knowledge or credentials for one second. But I would love to find out how many subjects he used, how he blinded the study, and, most importantly, what were the p values to indicate whether that one day was statistically significant at all!

That study is referred to in The Doctors Book of Home Remedies. There is no citation for this study. I went to the trouble to search via PubMed and, among all of Dr. Leyden's 302 (!) publications, this one is conspicuously absent. It takes millions of dollars to fund well-controlled studies with any decent population.

Dr. Leyden actually published a different study using Neosporin vs. four other antiseptic or no treatments and found that neosporin was the best. 9 days on average.J Fam Pract. 1987 Jun;24(6):601-4.

Also, to those who say good old petrolatum is just as good (that it's keeping the wound moist that's important) this study (Acad Emerg Med. 1995 Jan;2(1):2-3) showed a huge difference in infection rates when petrolatum alone was used.

If they were teaching your First Responder course from the Doctors Book of Home Remedies...then yes, there is a good chance that they were wrong about Neosporin being inferior to Polysporin.

NERD ALERT off!
_________________________
When the SHTF, no one comes out of it smelling pretty.

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