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#143294 - 08/08/08 05:51 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: rly45acp]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: rly45acp
You can't have everything with you, so I now carry the aforementioned small spray bottle of hydrogen peroxide, a few betadine swabs and a few quart size zip lock bags. I fill the bag with water, clip one bottom corner (small clip) and squeeze the bag to get an effective stream to flush the wound. This whole kit weighs little and takes up a very small space in my FAK.

So, what's a good brand of saline? I went to the local pharmacy recently to get some saline after reading about it here, but all of the products I saw had a whole raft of chemicals in them. I'm thinking that spraying chemicals into a wound may not be the best idea. I couldn't find anthing that was just H20 and NaCl.
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#143295 - 08/08/08 05:59 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Hikin_Jim]
rly45acp Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 18
Loc: SW Indiana
Get the solution for cleaning contact lenses that does not contain a preservative. That's what they told us in First Responder class. Too get the large bottles of saline solution like you see in the hospital, etc, you need a prescription from your doctor, even though it's in a bottle and not an IV bag!

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#143296 - 08/08/08 06:09 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: rly45acp]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 952
Loc: Channeled Scablands
The honey needs to be the hard, unpasturized kind to both stay
put and to give all the needed benefits.

Just googled this.

dermnetnz.org/treatments/pdf/honeyforwoundcare-dermnetnz.pdf

Says it released Hydrogen Peroxide in small quantities when exposed
to the wound exudates, but not enough to damage cells as larger
amounts can.

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#143299 - 08/08/08 06:49 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Blast]
thtimster Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 45
I researched a bit at:

wikipedia.com under hand washing & I checked out neosporin at
drugs.com & wikipedia.com

Hand washing without soap flushes larger particles away from the injured area. Soap & water does a better job of removing oils & finer particles that would stick to the injured area. Soap & warm-hot water accelerates the process (but doesn't kill germs.) Antibiotic soap & warm-hot water cleans like regular soap & water but also kill many germs & temporarily prevents them from returning.

Neosporin is a combination of 3 antibiotics (bacitracin, neomycin, and polymyxin B) & a mild pain killer. The 3 antibiotics kill a wider range of germs. They are intended for topical cuts & breaks in the skin. More powerful antibiotics are mostly unneccesary at this time, & could have side effects or the patient could have undiagnosed allergies.

I find that creams can collect more dirt & grime after an application so a bandaid would be needed (especially if you were outside & continuing to expose yourself to dirt, sweat etc.) For me bandaids keep a scab from forming & closing the wound. I will often take off a bandaid at night to let it weep, air out & form a scab. Naturally, I don't want it to be completely untreated so I would use povidone iodine. I used to use rubbing alcohol or peroxide, but I heard that those damage the skin. Povidone iodine can stain cloth so I often use Hibiclens which goes on like weak cough syrup & doesn't stain as bad (or at all.) For my first aid kit I keep povidone iodine & Hibiclens in small plastic weapons oil bottles that I bought at the army surplus store. The bottles are opaque as a peroxide bottle so I don't worry about light sensitive liquid inside. The bottle tops open like an Elmers Glue bottle so I don't worry about them leaking.

Hope that helps.

Tim

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#143303 - 08/08/08 07:03 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: rly45acp]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
Originally Posted By: rly45acp
...snip... What are the chances of getting a MRSA infection in the wild? ...snip...


Community aquired MRSA is on the rise. I managed to pick up a case, when was it, last fall or this spring, whatever (remember I have a nasty open wound for 14 months now - a skin graft was done this afternoon). We had 2 choices, 2 weeks in the hosptial on Vancomycin (sp) - IV, 2x/day, or 2 weeks of Zyvox at home. Bothe the MD and the Insurance Co (who has to pre-approve Zyvox) thought it was more likely that I would pick up 1 or more additional strains of resistant bugs in the hospital, so I spent 2 weeks on Zyvox. That is NOT a fun antibiotic - all sorts or restrictions on what you can eat/drink
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#143304 - 08/08/08 07:10 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: rly45acp]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 952
Loc: Channeled Scablands
Originally Posted By: rly45acp



What are the chances of getting a MRSA infection in the wild?


It could already be living on your skin's surface. Just needs
an entry point like a blister. Most everyone has some staph
bacteria living in their nose. It could be the resistant kind.

Like your mom said "Wash your hands"

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#143306 - 08/08/08 07:21 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: clearwater]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3556
Loc: Spring, Texas
I would just like to say, "Damn, I love the board!!!" I never seem another place with so many smart people and useful information.

-Blast
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#143307 - 08/08/08 07:32 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Hikin_Jim]
comms Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/23/08
Posts: 1502
Loc: Mesa, AZ
"I couldn't find anthing that was just H20 and NaCl."


Hikin Jim---
My home remedy for saline is approximately 8 oz H2O, 1/8 tsp of baking soda, 1/8 tsp of table salt.

Admittedly this is my home made saline remedy for clearing my sinus passages but should translate to a stable cleaning solution for wounds. it mimics sea water but the soda cuts the harshness of the NaCl.
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#143308 - 08/08/08 07:43 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Blast]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
A few comments on this thread:

Yep, you are crawling with pathogens, and you are the source of the organisms most likely to infect your wound.

Triple antibiotic OTC lotions have a low incidence of allergic reactions and remain surprisingly effective against even most drug resistant organisms. They should not be used on extensive or deep wounds.

Hydrogen peroxide is not shown to reduce wound bacteria, but it also probably isn't harmful, either. The foaming action my provide some mechanical benefit in cleaning out a wound. It's use remains controversial.

Povidine iodine (betadine) is bacteriostatic, not antibiotic. It is used, diluted, in wound cleaning and irrigation.

Generally speaking, allowing a wound to dry out is not a good thing, as it may retard healing.

Wound cleaning and irrigation requires more than a spritz or two from a small container of nasal or otic saline solution. In the woods, where soap and clean running water are unavailable, use a large (60cc) syringe to obtain the necessary pressure and volume. Normal saline (0.9%NaCL in H20) is optimal, but clean water is fine.

For us lightweight backpackers, I recommend using a plastic Ziploc type bag full of filtered or treated water with one or two iodine swabs added, waiting ten minutes, putting a small pinprick hole in the bag, and squeezing.

Suturing is not as easy as it seems, and requires clinical judgment as well as the necessary technique. Leave it to experts. Use wound closing strips instead.

Consider taking a really good wilderness oriented first aid or EMT course if you go far away from medical care often.

I am not a doctor, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night. This advice is worth exactly what you paid me for it. Consult your own darn doctor, you cheap bastard. ;-)
What I am is an experienced paramedic and disaster medical worker, as well as a long distance, solo backpacker, which means only that I have put some thought and training into treating wounds under less than optimal field conditions, and have done so, under the supervision of real doctors, perhaps thousands of times. Take it for whatever you think itís worth.

Jeff

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#143319 - 08/08/08 08:45 PM Re: Neosporin antibotic cream? [Re: Jeff_M]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Jeff_McCann
For us lightweight backpackers, I recommend using a plastic Ziploc type bag full of filtered or treated water with one or two iodine swabs added, waiting ten minutes, putting a small pinprick hole in the bag, and squeezing.
Thanks for your post.

Would it be possible to just use iodine tablets (e.g. Potable Aqua) and dispense with the swabs? Would doubling (tripling? quadrupling?) the usual number of iodine tabs be sufficent for wound cleansing? I'd rather not carry the swabs since they can get compromised pretty easily if their packaging gets compromised (pretty common in a full backpack), plus I rotate my iodine tabs far more frequently since I'm also using them up when I'm out on the trail.

Of course, iodine tablets take a while to dissolve. Would the swabs infuse the water more quickly?
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