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#14233 - 03/25/03 08:32 PM Clothes and Workplace Preparedness
Anonymous
Unregistered


Clothes?!?

Yes, you are right. I work in the District and have at my office extra clothes should I find that I'm sheltering in place or have to spend some time away from home. The clothes bag, an Eagle Industries duffel bag, is set up presently for cold weather, with a layered approach. (T-shirt, longsleeved shirt, sweater, windbreaker, etc.) Pants are cargo pants, for carrying stuff, and I've got an old pair of hiking boots with extra socks. And, yes, a watch cap. (Watch caps are the coolest.) I also keep a light sleeping bag in my closet, next to the 5-gallon water bottles for my office. I don;t have much else at the office, since I have the pack in the closet.

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#14234 - 03/25/03 08:46 PM Re: Clothes and Workplace Preparedness
Hutch66 Offline
new member

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 148
Loc: Virginia, USA
Working down town brings up a couple other points too. Although I think sheltering in place is probably the best idea for most situations, you should practice several different ways out of town during rush hour to see how they work with crowded streets (arent they always) and to allow for different main streets to be closed in the case of a disaster. Another idea, weather feasable for you or not I don't know, might be to keep a bicycle in your truck, for in the event of a mass evacuation that would probably get you out of town faster.
Another thing I've added to my kit recently is a dust mask and goggles. You could use one of your bandanas as an improvised mask, but I decided that the benefit of having dedicated protection outweighed the cost.

for what it's worth,
Chris.

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#14235 - 03/25/03 09:04 PM Exit Strategy
Anonymous
Unregistered


Chris:

Good points. I have given thought to leaving the District. On 9/11, faced with the choice of staying in the building or going with others elsewhere, I chose to stay. Those who attempted to leave town were caught in gridlock and the fastest means of getting across the river to VA was by foot. A bicycle, moped, enduro, etc. probably would be even faster. I don't have a bike, but suppose I could get one used. It would go in the garage of my building or in my closet. (I've got a big closet.) I'd chip in with friends at work to get a Zodiac <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />, but I suspect the Coast Guard won't tolerate river travel, the next time there's an event in the DC area!

Respirators and goggles. Yes, I've got them. There is mixed opinion on their value. And I'm doubtful of what good they'll do. Should a decision come down to outfit employees with hoods or masks I'll upgrade, for sure.

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#14236 - 03/25/03 09:36 PM Re: Exit Strategy
Hutch66 Offline
new member

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 148
Loc: Virginia, USA
All the coastguard or police are going to do is tell you to get off the river and go home, to which you can reply that that's exactly what you're trying to do <img src="images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> While I still think you'd be better off on foot or two wheels, if you're serious about heading down river, this boat might be a better idea than a zodiac, much lighter and no inflation time/gear. But unless you're willing to keep an outboard motor in your truck, it doesn't seem like it'd be worth it to me.

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#14237 - 03/25/03 09:36 PM "BOB" AOK?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yeah, thanks for correcting me on terminology. I've been hesitant to use "BOB" because of a personal, subjective negative perception of the term's connotation.

Regarding batteris: the batts for the Photon are light. The radio, 2-way radios, and strobe rely upon AA batts and so I've got 1.5x replacements for batts in these devices. D batts are big and heavy as is the miitary flashlight. I may dump this light and rely upon the Surefire 6P and Photon, and perhaps add a AA Mini Maglite. Oh, the 2-ways come with rechargable Nicads.

Definitely will add the Bic lighter and P-38!

Your thoughts?

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#14238 - 03/26/03 12:58 AM Re: Salt, Etc.
Anonymous
Unregistered


atty-guy :"My struggle here is that I can't see when there would be a convergence of a shortness of time and a need to go very light. The only scenario I can envision would be if I were being chased by someone. Am I missing something here? "

Ah yes,I should have mentioned-
I live on Vancouver Island and the biggest threat the we face out here is earthquake,so the main scenario that I plan for is a major earthquake. I live in an older apartment building surrounded by other old apartment buildings, in a suburbanized area and chances are if the "big one" hits - i'll have to very quickly evacuate the building,the immediate area, and possibly very quickly leave the city. Plus I have 2 cats so once i manage to exit the building i may have to sacrifice bulk for cat!
I've tried to plan for worst case- apartment buildings collapsing/on fire around me, I may have to make run for it and the larger pack would slow me down. I may be injured and not able to carry a full pack and yet still have to leave as quickly as possible. I leave the main pack slightly open so that i can easily and quickly remove the smaller bag , then if i have to i can make the decision in a split second-grab and run- and if it's at night and I'm asleep I am probably not wearing something with a lot (or any)pockets to put stuff in to( the majority of west coast earthquakes hit at night or very early in the morning. I also keep a flashlight,a pair of sneakers and crowbar under my bed- imagine no lights ,a lot of broken glass from windows and a newly off kilter door frame complete with wedged door- none of this stuff will do me any good if i can't even get out of the bedroom!) , I also keep a pair of light canvas sneakers,pants and shirt in a large ziploc just underneath the secondary bag just for this kind of night time situation-though if i can only grab the secondary bag, I can cover up with a couple of (non-see thru- I checked,ha) heavy duty garbage bags that are in it.

Time wise, if my apartment is being shaken to pieces ,taking a little more time to grab containers and stuff pockets could mean trouble- a falling beam to the noggin will could kill me just as dead as a bullet or a bomb. With both packs i can take my time or not, as the situation demands.

I 've planned for emergency situations that are most likely to crop up in my part of the world which tend to more of the natural disaster type of thing, with you being out in D.C. I imagine that you're plans are more geared toward terrorist attacks and you may have that extra few minutes to pack up (just a guess),so what is (i think,ha) right for me -second bag etc..- may not be right for your most likely scenario.

Oh,also (man am I long winded today) my secondary "bag in a bag" is very very light (10$ nylon walmart special,about the size of 4 vhs tapes) so as to add very little weight to my main pack.

Hope I answered your questions .

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#14239 - 03/26/03 01:05 AM Re: "BOB" AOK?
Comanche7 Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/04/02
Posts: 436
Loc: Florida
atty_guy,

Pretty nice job on getting stuff in place! Just a couple of thoughts that popped into my head while skimming over these posts...my apologies if I missed your having included any of these items already.

How about List of frequencies common to your local first responders?

Regarding the bag in bag [perhaps I can coin a new acronym here, what about BNB? <img src="images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />] approach? ...I stuck an empty bag, although a cloth knapsack or related item could suffice into my BOB. Figured that if I was in a hurry, or it was raining or whatever, I could dump out the contents (mostly already in smaller bags) into the big one, grab what is needed at the moment, then move on. At a later (safer?) time/place, the original BOB could be repacked.

Hmmm, consider changing the mag lite lamps to led type, you'll get much longer battery life and it could cut down somewhat on the added battery replacement weight. Go to www.candlepowerforums.com and check out the led forums & do a search on replacement lamps.

Regarding the resp/mask concern, what about an EVAC-U8 hood? Multi-purpose, will address burning chemical byproducts, and would keep your whole head clear of dust particulates as well. Doug has reviewed this and related products elsewhere on this site.

Good job!

Regards,
Comanche7

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#14240 - 03/26/03 01:49 AM What's the frequency, Kenneth?
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thanks for the kind words.

First responder freqs.? Yeah, I thought of that, but I'd need a scanner to listen in on them. If I'm on my own, that's an additional piece of gear. If I were to shelter in place, I'd have access to a receiver with the freqs. already programmed. I'll give it some more thought. . . .

Ref. BNB, I'm confused. The 3-day pack rides on my back. The first responder back either goes around the waist or over the shoulder with the strap. Tools, cash, credit card, etc. are in the "hard cache" that would go in a cargo pants pocket, as would the fishing kit and a few other items. Hydration system stays in the pack, so as I type this, I would be disinclined to dump the pack. If I did, the back-up mil-spec water bag would carry the water. I think I'd stick with the pack and dump stuff (e.g., MRE's, towel, poncho liner).

I've definitely thought about switching over to LED set-ups. I can see this happening in the future for the reasons you list.

As for hoods, there are constraints. Money is not one of them. 1) I'm not convinced, yet, that the threat is severe enough to warrant one. 2) I won't have more protection than those who work for me have. 3) There's a chance that my employer may provide a hood, in which case I'd likely go with what I've been given, assuming I am assured that it is adequate. One caveat there: I will not wear a hood if it is the kind that DoD employees were issued. (I won't mention the brand name.) Forgive me for the crudeness of my description, but that hood looks like a hood with a maxi-pad taped to the front. <img src="images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> If were issued those, I'll buy a #@*!%# face mask and get properly trained on its use and maintenance! The cost is the same and I won't look like some freak! <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

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#14241 - 03/26/03 03:24 AM Re: Request for Comments - Disaster Survival Kit
Anonymous
Unregistered


A few thoughts

1 Medical kit
Fewer variety of bandages and more Kling. Kling wrap can be cravat, tournequit, face mask, joint tape. Oh yeah - bandage. Add imodium or other anti-diaherial since that can become severely dehydrating and incapacitating and is likely in a situation of questionable drinking water.

2 Signalling
Go ahead and take the 1 day ham lisencing course for rought $50.00 from your local ham club and get a decent 2 meter or better yet a tri-band ham hand held. It will weigh about the same as your gmrs radio and will also provide scanning for the emergency services freq's and communications with the emergency communications folks directly - heck, who knows you might even want to participate in emergency communications yourself. I wouldn't bother with the strobe, in it's place you might want to get a PLB but that is probably useless in an urban environment. BTW your mini Grundig SW reciever may be able to get the emergency freq's in your area - check it out.

3 Emergency Devices Group
Do lighten up the flashlight. Led converted miniMag light seems to be a reasonably priced and good option and you can keep the original bulb on hand if you need to throw a more directed beam. Add a cell phone and make sure that you have battery conversions for you HandHeld radios and cell phone to use AA or AAA - which ever you settle on for your flash light. Replace mil-spec candle with NuWick candle

4 Shelter
Add an 8X10 sil-tarp. Beats the garbage bags by a long shot and only weighs 10 oz and takes up almost no room. I second the idea of swim goggles and dust mask. These are cheap and will be helpful in any situation that raises dust or smoke. Not a response to bio-chem attack but if there is explosion, fire or building collapse from earthquake then the dust can become a choking problem or debris in the eyes a sever problem. Also add a good pair of work gloves.

5 Food and water
Depending upon resupply, I would forgo all food except a roll of lifesavers or equivalent and a slim-jim jerky snack (see below comments) Water should be sufficient to get you through 1 day. The container for the first day should be adequate for refill for subsequent days. I would also add a small filter of some kind. There are decent filters built into bottles or as straws or even better small hand powered ceramic ones from katadyn. Don't bother with the MRE heaters, they are pure luxury and a small tommy-cooker combined with a sierra cup will weigh less in the long run work longer and allow for boiling drinking water for purification.

6 Batteries
re-arrange you electronics so that everything except the photon takes either AA or AAA bateries, carry enough lithium rechargable AA's or AAA's to replace all batteries in the device that takes the most (eg the Ham HT which takes 4 AA's) and carry a solar / hand-cranked recharger capable of charging all batteries not in use at once (in this example that is only 4 AA's) This arrangement will be lighter and more long-lasting than what you are currently carrying. Potentially smaller in bulk as well since the extra batteries will be carried in the charger.

7 Miscellaneous gear
Add monocular or binocular or scope. Drop all small cable ties in preference for larger. they don't take up that much more room and long ones can tie up small things while small ones cannot tie up large things. Same goes for the extra zip-locks and garbage bags.

8 Personal effects
Add list of immunizations currently effective and

9 Personal supplies group
You might want a Little John Shovel with some refills, ear-plugs, eye-shades - you may find yourself trying to sleep in a shelter with 500+ of your closest friends replace deoderant with gelled alcohal hand sanitizer (which will burn just as well as sterno for cooking on) Add sunglasses / perscription sunglasses.

General comments. There are many scenarios where you would want to evacuate an area with great urgency. In any of them it is not a great thing to be changing clothes or re-packing things or shouldering a behemoth pack while trying to get through a panicking crowd. Building collapse and fire are the most obvious ones but there are probably others (like the bouncers just peppered the brawling bimbos at the edge of the stage - i digress <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ) In each of these having something small - like a belly bag - is about all you would want to grab to go. It should contain enough to get you through if you get nothing else but will necessarily be minimalist. For example, from your list it might contain a garbage bag for shelter, the space blanket, a plastic rain poncho, and the potable aqua for water and a couple of ziplocks as water containers the photon, the goggles and dust mask, a good pair of work gloves, the cell phone, such of the personal effects as are usually in your wallet, the little-john shovel, 2 oz hand sanitizer, a mini-bic, a classical PSK ALA Dougs altoids kit, the leatherman, the ear plugs and eye shades, the storm whistle and the sierra cup. This bellypack should be expected to get you to your truck. If it needs to it can get you out of the city and perhaps you could survive on it for a week or longer if you had to. Your truck could have a razor scooter or bicycle, a set of carhart coveralls and the rest of your gear - and perhaps a bunch more stuff to make life really comfortable. In any scenario where rapid evacuation is necessary you want to move quickly and lightly. There is no food or water in this belly pack but there is a snare, and fishing kit in the altiods kit and a bottle of potable aqua and a ziplock. And you will have your leatherman. I would also advise that you have a cache that is reachable within a days walk in the worst of situations. Say a locker at a train-station or a self-storage facility or under a friends bed, where you could stash replacement items or a few extra MRE's in-case your truck is crushed in the same collapse that forces you to leave your building. This secondary cache should be selected for survivability - single story building - on a hill - external access to your stuff - etc.

So, I have spewed forth - back to lurking

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#14242 - 03/26/03 04:30 AM Re: Exit Strategy
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
What the Coast Guard is going to do in a major disaster adjacent to waterways is stretch allready overtaxed, non existent resources.There will be the potential for toxic effluents released by design or accident, securing the waterways for INCOMING relief efforts, evacuating people where necessary and supporting security operations to name a few. Most personell will be reservists specializing in the Port Securityman rating. What the Coast Guard will not have the time, resources or inclination to do is stop and render aid to a flotilla of Mongolian Merchant Mariners <img src="images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

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