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#142445 - 08/01/08 04:03 AM Re: Going Solar [Re: BobS]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
What we all want is the option to be on-grid to sell power and to be off-grid whenever we want or have to be. You know, all we want is everything.

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#142446 - 08/01/08 04:04 AM Re: Going Solar [Re: BobS]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2846
Loc: La-USA
So would I AND I will be eventually.

The dramatic change in our way of life has already started, as in: The End Of The World As We Knew It, but it's a slow start that will gain momentum, especially in new construction.

There is a new breed coming of age now and I am IMPRESSED with what I have been observing recently as they are quietly taking charge of their lives and of their living circumstances.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#142462 - 08/01/08 10:31 AM Re: Going Solar [Re: BobS]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: BobS



Also look into solar air heaters for some free room heat. A solar air heater is about the size of a medium window and produces as much heat as a 1500-watt electric heater.

It needs a small electric fan to circulate air, but a very small solar panel and a computer fan can work for this. Making it 100% free heat.


http://www.solarsponge.com/article.htm
Awesome.

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#142465 - 08/01/08 11:47 AM Re: Going Solar [Re: Nishnabotna]
KG2V Offline

Veteran

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1371
Loc: Queens, New York City
RE Grid power being cheaper than you can make.

If you look at the breakthroughs IN THE LAB, over the last say 9-12 months (the first of which are coming on line now), solar power will not only reach the "break even point" in the next 3 years or so, but should actually become cheaper in many locals than buying power, with 2 main assumptions.

The first is that you don't have to pay for the land to put up your solar array - with that, all bets are off. You are already paying for the land your rooftop covers, so...

The second is that you don't really try for 100% "off grid". Sizing your array to try to handle peak load, particularly at NIGHT (read VERY large battery banks), or huge arrays if peak draw is during the day (rare in a home situataion, where you go to work) can really make the the ROI point of putting in a system exceed the life of said system (assume you will have to replace the cells in 20 years, batteries every??)

The break even point will change from location to location. From what I understand, on Long Island, in LIPA's area, it already pays with the rebates that LIPA offers. As far as I can tell, here in ConEd's area (some of the most expensive electric in the country), the ROI is negative, because there is no rebate

I presonally research the ROI about once/year, becasue as soon as the ROI is positive, my roof will have a set of cells
_________________________
73 de KG2V
You are what you do when it counts - The Masso
Homepage: http://www.thegallos.com
Blog: http://kg2v.blogspot.com

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#142487 - 08/01/08 03:20 PM Re: Going Solar [Re: Fitzoid]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
As was mentioned by someone earlier (sorry, I forgot who) reducing power consumption will do a lot for reducing how much power you need to provide via solar.

Adding insulation to your home to improve its efficiency helps.

Killing phantom power loads via a central smart switch or by adding power strips with on/off switches will reduce consumption.

There are a number of tutorials on the web for horizontal refrigerator and freezer set-ups that save an amazing amount of energy. First, by being chest type units the cold air doesn't dump out into the environment when the door is opened. Secondly these units are super insulated. Thirdly, the condenser coils are moved away from the unit, and in one case I'd read about the person was using them to preheat water. After that a number of other tricks are used such as temperature switches that cut power to the refrigerator when it reaches preset temperatures.

As mentioned before, solar water heaters help to preheat water so you use less energy to get it to the temperature you want.

An interesting idea I've seen recently is using waste concrete to fill a home's internal wall cavities to build up thermal mass to save on energy used for heating and cooling.

Solar Air heaters were mentioned before as well. Then there's passive solar design, but that's something that usually needs to be thought about as the home is being built.

Solar lighting can help reduce electrical loads during the day.

There's a lot of other things we can do to reduce power consumption that won't adversely affect our lives too badly as well.

Also, please understand that while I'm trying to reduce my consumption, I like my toys too, so I'm working on reducing wasted power not so much looking to live like a monk by candle light. LOL

I've been looking into getting off the grid for a while now and I think another decision I've made is to reduce the size of my future home's floor plan. By taking away one room, I reduce the power needed to heat and cool the home, and save money on construction and materials costs that can be put toward the Solar PV system.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#142523 - 08/01/08 06:10 PM Re: Going Solar [Re: Nicodemus]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Maybe it's just me, but everyone who is interested in solar seems to be wanting active (mechanical) solar. Does anyone ever consider passive solar? I've seen homes with a solar array on the roof, with the main bank of windows facing any direction except south. I guess that's fine if you've got more money than you know what to do with. But wouldn't it make sense to start with passive solar, reduce your heating/cooling needs, and THEN start investigating active solar?

I had made the comment fairly recently that every new home (within maybe ten years) was placed to face the street, not the sun, and Martin F. contradicted me, saying that more and more are taking advantage of solar gain. So I've been looking again. Nope, not here in W. WA. There are quite a few custom houses on acreage, and without any exceptions that I could see, every single one of them faces the street. The only ones facing south are the ones on the north side of their east/west street. What a waste of free energy!

Anyone interested in mostly-passive solar should check out a book called Solviva by Anna Edey. (Ignore the next section of the title, which is expensive blue-sky.) But her work with the basics of solar thermal convection is very interesting, and she built her home on those principles.

Her designs for in-home composting toilets are also useful. And please keep in mind that her designs have been in use for some years now, they are not just theoretical pie-in-the-sky.

Sue

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#142524 - 08/01/08 06:19 PM Re: Going Solar [Re: Susan]
BobS Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 924
Loc: Toledo Ohio
I think active solar water heating is better suited to freezing temps then passive solar is. This may be why you see more of it.
_________________________



You can run, but you'll only die tired.


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#142526 - 08/01/08 06:27 PM Re: Going Solar [Re: BobS]
Nishnabotna Offline
Icon of Sin
Addict

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 512
Loc: Nebraska
Passove solar can really only be considered before the house is built, not afterwards, so that's why I'm not too interested in it. I wasn't even alive when my house was built much less able to influence it's construction.

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#142528 - 08/01/08 06:43 PM Re: Going Solar [Re: Susan]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'd tend to agree with you, Susan. In a lot of areas the direction the front of the house faces is generally the road, and not south to take advantage of solar gain.

However, there are some newer communities starting to pop up here and there with house rows and roads traveling east west.

My Brother-In-Law actually had to get permission from a HOA to angle his house catty-corner to the street it was on. He finally got the OK, but only because his house was on an intersection. This allowed him to place a bunch of windows on the back of his house, facing south.

I'm currently trying to get him to add Solar PV to the back of his house.
_________________________
"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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