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#139215 - 07/10/08 12:59 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: ]
bmisf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
Sorry to be the devil's advocate today dweste but the smallest bear vault is over $200...that's just too much for most people. For me space is at a premium and I just can't afford a $225 dollar stool that also keeps bears away from my food.


Not true at all - the Bear Vault starts at $60 and goes up to $80 for the larger model. Garcia, Counter Assault are in that same range, and the smaller Bare Boxer is only $40. (The Bearikade Carbon Fiber models are more in the range you noted - but that's the "Porsche" route when lots of approved Chevys are available.)

The Ursack is a good product but isn't allowed in a number of areas including Yosemite and SEKI, Lost Coast, Adirondack High Peaks, parts of the Cascades, etc. I'd consider it slightly less foolproof than the hard-sided containers, though I do recommend it for areas where it's allowed and the bears aren't habituated.

I give all of the canisters a big thumbs up over any hanging method. It's so much easier, and so much more foolproof, to toss everything into one at the end of a long day and rest easy. Yes, most of the products have been breached here and there, though I've heard from rangers that it's almost always due to user error or a worn canister that no longer locks correctly (common with Garcias rented out too many times without maintenance.) Compare that to hanging, where losses are common.

One slip-up and your food is gone, and you've contributed to the death of a bear in areas where they manage them once habituated. The most effective choice will be the one you're most likely to use and which doesn't take lots of fiddling.

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#139218 - 07/10/08 01:07 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: bmisf]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


I was just utilizing the link provided to the carbon fiber models as they were being utilized as the example.

Personally I'll always hang my food and far from camp. Just because food is safe from bears doesn't mean I want them in camp trying to get it anyhow. I don't buy that any container will mask the scent enough. Bears smell too good.

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#139219 - 07/10/08 01:07 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: nursemike]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I'll bet they had really long thumbs. Or more likely, very short...
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#139234 - 07/10/08 02:43 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: Chaotiklown]
Nicodemus Offline
Paranoid?
Veteran

Registered: 10/30/05
Posts: 1341
Loc: Virginia, US
I'd go with an OPSAK (makers of Aloksak). It's an airtight, waterproof and odorproof bag. I'd put the OPSAK in a stuffsack (Don't stuff it so hard that you break the OPSAK seal), attach a line and hang it in a tree away from camp "just in case".

OPSAK
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"Learn survival skills when your life doesn't depend on it."

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#139394 - 07/11/08 02:20 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: ]
bmisf Offline
Member

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
I don't buy that any container will mask the scent enough. Bears smell too good.


Oh, absolutely - the whole point of the canisters is that it doesn't matter if they smell them (which they will), since they can't get inside.

If you expect that bears won't notice hang bags and any bag using an "odor proof sack" you're just kidding yourself - the bears will find them very quickly. The odor proof sacks will have smells on the outside the first time you put your garbage into one or put away the rest of your stuff after a meal (and over time they'll develop leaks), so they really don't do much to slow the bears down.

Creating an impenetrable barrier is the best bet.

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#139397 - 07/11/08 02:32 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: bmisf]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


See that's the logic that escapes me. I'm far less worried about losing my food than I am about a bear in my camp. That's why I hang my food. Bear vault or not, the food just has to be hung or stashed far from camp.

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#139399 - 07/11/08 02:42 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: ]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Agreed. Bearikade or hanging bag: no food in camp in bear country.

The "experts" also recommend changing clothes so you don't wear your cookin' or fishin' duds in camp. I guess you are supposed to safeguard the cookin' and fishin' clothes, too.

So what I see is an early camp for coking, cleaning the fish, washing up, etc. (you're not going to use deodorant, toothpaste, or anything scented for the duration of the trip, apparently). Then you change into your sleeping duds, safeguard all the rest of the stuff, and hike up the trail many hundred yards to camp and sleep.

In the morning you come back and, what, change back into the cookin' and fishin' duds to hike for the day?

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#139411 - 07/11/08 06:26 AM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: dweste]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


My rule, which I try to follow...it's not always easy, is to have a different set of clothes just for camp (including sleeping in). That way I can be sweaty, soaked, stinky, gross, etc. and can give myself a wipe down, put on some dry clothes and feel civil again. The nasty clothes get rinsed if needed and hung out to dry and air out in the back 40.

That said I'm human and I get lazy...I'm sure nature will force me to learn a lesson about that one day.

Thankfully bears aren't an issue in the winter! smile

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#139436 - 07/11/08 03:07 PM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: ]
Stu Offline
I am not a P.P.o.W.
Old Hand

Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 1058
Loc: Finger Lakes of NY State
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7512.html
For those interested in camping in parts on NY State
Bear Resistant Canister Regulation
Subparagraph 190.13(f)(3)(xiv) of Title 6 of the New York Code, Rule and Regulation (6 NYCRR) (effected August 24, 2005) states that no person "during the period April 1 through November 30, no overnight camper in the Eastern High Peaks Zone shall fail to use bear-resistant canisters for the storage of all food, food containers, garbage, and toiletries."
continued at link
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Our most important survival tool is our brain, and for many, that tool is way underused! SBRaider
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#139437 - 07/11/08 03:12 PM Re: Black bears and my food supplies [Re: Stu]
dweste Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/16/08
Posts: 2463
Loc: Central California
Many places have similar requirements, most in park reg,s. An additional point for getting a cannister.


Edited by dweste (07/11/08 03:15 PM)

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